Parry and Deflect Arrows

[Yellena]

Tests with DM Symphony.

Parry Mode:

-Parry mode blocks the first attack of each round "Flurry" (read below). That means Parry can only block a maximum of 3 attacks per round (or less if your number of base attacks is lower).

-Parry mode takes about 4s to add +5 AB and Damage bonus based on skill. The Damage bonus equal to the 'Parry Skill/2' (items included), for the first 20 ranks, and 'Parry Skill/4' thereafter.

-Only main hand and off-hand attacks are considered. Extra attacks gained from spells and effects (like Haste) are ignored. If using a Quarterstaff, the custom extra off-hand attacks and extra main-hand attacks (when being a monk) the system shows are ignored.

-When attacker rolls to confirm a critical hit, the roll must be made against the Parry Skill of the target, meaning it's harder to take the critical damage.

-A Natural 20 ignores the Parry.

-Works with Circle Kick, allowing you to hit two targets on the follow up attack once per round.

-Parry mode will be disabled by attempting to cast or use items.



Flurry: the combat round (6s) is divided into 3 "Flurry". Consider them three "slots" of 2s each, where attacks avaiable are evenly spread: []-[]-[].
With 2 attacks, they fill the "slots" as [1]-[1]-[0].
With 4 attacks: [2]-[1]-[1]. In this casse, the 2nd attack of the first Flurry would bypass parry.



Side note:

Deflect Arrows:
-Works while in Parry mode and the attack isn't included in Flurry, so no parry attempt is "lost".
-Works when you have a free off-hand (no weapon or shield equiped) and with Double-sided weapons (NOT Two-Handed weapons).

[Nitro]

-Works with Circle Kick, allowing you to hit two targets once per round

Hold up, do you mean two riposte attacks per round, or just one riposte attack and one regular followup?

[Yellena]

Follow up attack! Edited to make it more clear.

[Azaria]

follow up attack????.. but you cant attack while in parry mode right?

sorry if im being stupid

[Lorkas]

Parry lets you do a riposte attack if your parry roll beats the attacker's attack roll by 10 or more.

Circle kick lets you do an extra attack against a nearby enemy when you make an unarmed attack in a round.

The statement under discussion is just pointing out that riposte attacks can trigger Circle Kick's bonus attack, if you're using parry while 1) unarmed, and 2) at least two enemies are within range.

[Azaria]

will said circle kick have the parry added bonus though? (dmg and ab)

[Yellena]

Yes! It's an effect on you, not the attacks per se. So any attacks you use while in parry (usually only ripostes), uses your increased AB and Dmg. Works on Cleave and Great Cleave too!

[Jagel]

And parry roll is:

Attacker's roll (d20 + ab, str, weapon bonus etc) vs. defender's roll (ab, weapon bonus etc + parry + d20)?

[Lorkas]

defender's roll (ab, weapon bonus etc + parry + d20)

Nooooo, AB and weapon bonus do not count for the parry check. If it did, then you'd be able to parry anyone pretty well without investing a single point in parry as long as your AB was higher than theirs.

The defender is rolling parry + d20 versus a DC of the attacker's modified attack roll.

In other words, if my character attacks yours while you're parrying and I roll a total modified roll of a 26, then you have to roll at least 26 on parry+d20 to deflect the blow, and at least 36 on parry+d20 to make a counterattack.

[Baratan]

Is parry actually useful?

[Owen]

I have noticed Parry deactivated when moving.

[Jagel]

I thought it sounded wrong, hehe.

Parry's supposedly useful now if:
- You have a lot of ranks
- You're engaging only one or two enemies in melee
- You have at least 3 attacks

Other factors that spring to mind?

[nobs3]

if you are dex based and don't wear heavy armor

[Jagel]

Right and don't use shields

[Trunx]

Shields are fine, you just probably won't want to use a tower shield.

[Nitro]

Unless it's one of those artifact ones with +9 to parry.

[Baratan]

And that's a few reasons why it's never worked for me.

[Jagel]

And that's a few reasons why it's never worked for me.

The update to parry is rather recent. Before that the skill was utter, utter crap.

[miesny_jez]

It's still annoying in many cases.. even with an update.

I started a dedicated Parry char yesterday to have some fun with the NEW parry system and immediately remembered the number of issues with parry I had forgotten about, those are:

• 1) You cannot have the mode toggled on all the time - each time You start a combat with a new group of enemies You start from 'zero' bonus and have to wait for the mode to activate.
  2) If You use summons/companions etc You will be just standing there waiting for the attack while Your enemies will switch to summon
  3) Enemies running out of range of Your parry while moving around and cancelling the mode (and the bonus)
  4) No Attacks of Opportunity
  5) Killing a parry target with a riposte and be out of range to the second target = loosing parry mode
  6) Arrows/Mages = no parry
  7) Using a -guard on a friend an entering parry works rather well but can easily get You too many attacks on Your head to parry if Your "friend" will not be careful.
  8) Any hostile AoE spell on ground - means You have to move and loose parry mode
  9) Cannot parry more then 3 attacks
  10) Any magic caster at all.. well tough luck
  11) Haste is useless
  12) One enemy limit - You better learn how to pull Your enemies one by one

Now the good things:

• 1) The bonus is AMAZING-souce, it makes from a weakling 12 ST character someone who can actually hit hard
  2) 3 Parries per round = means You don't have to worry Yourself with number of attacks/round Your character can achieve. Any 3/4 AB class is capable of achieving this = freedom of build, essentially almost build independent *winks to Rogue characters*
  3) With the AB bonus from parry mode Your 3/4 character can actually hit things!
  4) High parry-skill values achievable from the start, just enchant all Your gear with +2 parry and You're golden with 20+ skill ranks
  5) Due to AB/Damage bonus Your character can use whatever weapon he/she wants
  6) Possible ceiling for parry can be better then a WMs riding on a True Strike potion. (Parry 118 vs AB 89)
  7) Essentially ward-independent - You can reach high numbers of parry just through gear/feats/skills
  8) You can Parry almost naked (though I don't encourage that)
  9) You don't need Discipline - You will parry that knockdown attempt even easier

[Lorkas]

AB 89 is way different from a fully modified attack roll of 89. There's no reason to go above 97 actually if 89 is your theoretical max roll from a fully warded WM--you'll still be able to riposte on everything but a 20 at that value.

[miesny_jez]

Yep, that's why I am saying the possible Parry ceiling is higher then possible WM attack roll.

But of course that doesn't mean Parry will make You immune to WMs - a good WM will simply pull out a second weapon increasing his attacks/round to five/six or six/seven (in case of two weapon) with haste and will still whoop Your a** but at least You will make it much harder for him

But in case of PvM.. I think it will actually work as long as You care to not attack more then 1 enemy

[Lorkas]

Gonne would be a fine response also.

[Aodh Lazuli]

Gonne would be a fine response also.

With the exception that most parry characters will also have a rather good touch AC.

[Lorkas]

I guess it comes down to whether you'd rather fish for 20s and get hit every time you don't roll a 20, or fish for 20s and just lose a gonne slug each time you don't manage it.

Maybe the best way to fight against a parry character if you have 4 attacks per round is to go through only your first flurry of the round (when you swing twice and only one of them is caught by parry), then disengage for a short time since the other two flurries will consist of only one attack each, so you're just handing attacks to your opponent.

Also, an observation and a question about whirlwind attack:

Observation: you can activate whirlwind attack without breaking parry mode (though I'm unsure how/if the animations will conflict).

Question: is it possible to parry a whirlwind attack?

[yellowcateyes]

a good WM will simply pull out a second weapon increasing his attacks/round to five/six or six/seven (in case of two weapon) with haste and will still whoop Your a** but at least You will make it much harder for him

A kukri WM that alternates dual wield and tower shield could definitely use this strategy. But most WMs, who have not invested in dual wield feats, would see a significant drop in AB for just one extra attack. And without a shield, every riposte would be a guaranteed hit.

DEX parrymasters will likely have e-dodge and high AC, and will also likely have the UMD to add concealment. An attacking, hasted scim WM will see their highest AB attack swallowed by edodge and three attacks parried. With 4 attacks negated, they have a diminished chance of having 1-2 attacks go through, while facing 3 ripostes with bonus ab and damage.

If the defender is a DEX WM, there's a solid chance that one or more of the ripostes will be a 180+ dmg crit.

In short, going full assault mode to overwhelm parry is a risky strategy unless you were already built for dual wield. A careless attacker can shred himself as if he were attacking a barb.