Fighter AC Bonus Question

[rlor]

I'm trying to understand if my play experience as a wizard tending to group with 1-2 others in the UD and now pandemonium is so far out of the norm from what I've seen with kensai and non-kensai PCs. Maybe having a non-dispellable always-on haste is actually poor for what they lose versus community crafted builds when both are played at their max potential.

I'm not saying that I don't think they need changes, I just haven't seen them being complete trash from my day to day experience in game (to echo TheVandals above me, make Pies of Restoration usable by kensai, eating a pie should not require magical attunement).

Maybe I'm just bitter because I've seen too many people not stand still for mind blank because they have a clarity wand/potion and then spend the fight feared because it ran out "at just the wrong time" and other such events of theoretical performance differing from the actual.

[Trunx]

I'm trying to understand if my play experience as a wizard tending to group with 1-2 others in the UD and now pandemonium is so far out of the norm from what I've seen with kensai and non-kensai PCs. Maybe having a non-dispellable always-on haste is actually poor for what they lose versus community crafted builds when both are played at their max potential.

I'm not saying that I don't think they need changes, I just haven't seen them being complete trash from my day to day experience in game (to echo TheVandals above me, make Pies of Restoration usable by kensai, eating a pie should not require magical attunement).

Maybe I'm just bitter because I've seen too many people not stand still for mind blank because they have a clarity wand/potion and then spend the fight feared because it ran out "at just the wrong time" and other such events of theoretical performance differing from the actual.

Kensais are fine if they're in a party with a spellcaster. The spellcaster can take care of their weaknesses. Only problem is that non-kensais would likely always be hasted too when with most spellcasters, so the kensai has no advantages.

[rlor]

That is where the non-dispellable part can make the difference in my mind. I've seen times when I drop a mass haste and a dispel goes off. Unless they're running around I can't tell at a glance if their haste is still going so they may take a good bit more damage as with other spells they may drop from <5% chance to be hit to a 25% chance to be hit. A kensai's damage taken is likely to be a bit more consistent in such a case.

Something like mind immunity is a bit more obvious when it falls off so I can toss out a lesser mind blank or a clarity myself whether they are or are not a kensai if it happens to be a fight where it matters.

Also a lot of areas I personally frequent are likely to have chaotic magic. Something like improved invis can last for 40+ minutes barring dispels so it can be placed on before entering those areas. Mass haste doesn't last long enough to cast from outside a wild magic zone. Low chance for something catastrophic to happen but is more likely when you're rolling that die 10 times in an expedition than 1-2 times. Perhaps everyone should be carrying and spamming haste consumables in those areas but I just don't see that in practice.

I'm not suggesting they're superior to a non-kensai. I view them as similar to a wild mage. It is not a path for me as I consider not knowing what my spells will do a hassle. It doesn't mean it is a bad path and people who pick it are bad players, they're just looking for something different than I am.

[High Primate]

I agree about making the abilities in some way interesting or relevant to RP. Same reason I chose to play one--liked the concept of no magic in exchanged for increased prowess as a melee-er.

[Seekeepeek]

I have a lvl 30 kensei too and to be honest i like they can't solo. it's an other playstyle and you would be surprised how it can shape your role play that your so depending on others. i do agree that stat drain is a pain, but usually i just carried scrolls about and have other players use them on me. i did also like to point out not all kenseis use two-handed weapons to fight or weapon and shield for that matter.

The biggest problems i found with my kensei was that some people refused to party with me, as i was unable to raise them and had to run to a town to do so. but keep in mind that was before the death-system change nerf.

This is just my personal experience with the path. it don't really have to be useful mechanical wise. it could have a text that warn people not to make one unless they want a challenge thought.

[WhiskeyGuy]

Was this changed?
http://wiki.arelith.com/Fighter

It says:
All the AC, Attack and Damage bonus stacks with equipment.
Note that the AB/Damage/AC item stacking of the fighter is exclusive of the fighter's abilities, and there's no other way to stack them.
A shield, helmet and armor/clothing must be equipped in order to receive the respective AC bonus, and a weapon for the AB and damage bonus - unarmed attacks will not benefit.
The AC bonus for the helmet is Deflection, a source of AC that may also be found in rings, cloaks and other even less common sources. The Fighter bonus AC will only stack with the helmet's AC; not rings or else. You will use whichever Deflection is higher; Helmet+Fighter Bonus or Ring/Weapon/Spells.

So... do they now stack or not?

[Catchup]

They "Stack". Yes. If you are a lvl 15 fighter and you equip a full +3 set of armor (Shield/Plate/Helmet) It all becomes +4.

Same goes for your weapon over lvl 23. A +3 becomes a +4. A +4 turns +5.

[Lorkas]

You do get a stacking item property on your armor/helm/shield/weapon. If you have 5 fighter levels and equip a bronze full plate, you'll notice that it gets a temporary +1 Armor AC property added to it. Equip a +3 armor and it will instead give you +4.

What this is saying about non-stacking is that you can't equip an adamantine helm for +3 deflection AC and then also equip a ring with +1 deflection AC. It will only give you the +3 AC from the helm. This works the same way it does for every character.

[Iceborn]

What it actually says is that the fighter bonus doesn't apply to rings with AC, only helmets.

[Catchup]

Or amulets. Or boots. Or gloves. Or cloaks. Only armor: Chest, helmet and shield.

[Iceborn]

Eh, boots use Dodge, which always stacks.

[Catchup]

But the fighter bonus is not added.

As in +1 ac boots would not become +2.

[Iceborn]

???
Yes, because the fighter doesn't have any bonus to boots, or Dodge.
I guess.

[Catchup]

Which was the question I believe. It only applies to armor (read chest piece), helmet and shield.