Fighter AC Bonus Question

[Shadowy Reality]

2h weapons damage should have a x1.5 multiplier to them. As in, masterly Damask 2h should give 9 damage instead of 6.

The only issue with this are small races, as a 1h sword wielded by a small race should give 9 damage instead of 6. I have no idea how to go around that.

[Iceborn]

In NWN vanilla, wielding a weapon two-handed adds 1.5x of the strength modifier as damage.
So, if you have 30 of strength (modifier 10), a one-hander would get 10 of extra damage, but a two-hander would get 15 of damage.

This is something that works the same for small races wielding their respective two-handed weapons (scimitars, longswords, spears, anything that is classified as medium-sized).

Just for clarity's sake.

[Cortex]

He was referring to the damage on the weapon, not the STR modifier.

[Peppermint]

When last I looked at this, I was leaning toward giving two-handed weapons more synergy with power attack (e.g. if you power attack with a two-handed weapon, you gain +2 damage for each AB lost, instead of +1).

[Seven Sons of Sin]

When last I looked at this, I was leaning toward giving two-handed weapons more synergy with power attack (e.g. if you power attack with a two-handed weapon, you gain +2 damage for each AB lost, instead of +1).

That's easy and awesome.

How hardcoded is the x1.5 STR modifier when wielding two-handed weapons? I'd love to see if that could be bumped up to x1.75ish?

4 STR becomes 7 (instead of 6)
6 becomes 10 (instead of 9)
8 becomes 14 (instead of 12)
10 becomes 17 (instead of 15) etc etc.

I don't know if x2 STR modifier would be too broken.

[TheVandals]

Sounds like all the goodies from NWN2. Are you going to add the other goodies like being able to 2-hand certain medium swords? Like... <shifty eyes> ... katana?

[Trunx]

Power attack thing sounds good too, but I don't think two handed weapons should get multiple buffs (like power attack buff and str multiplier buff), lest we get greatswords critting for 250 damage and scythes critting for 450.

[msterswrdsmn]

Random suggestion:

Another server (sorry, don't remember the name) gave power attack multiple boosts:

1. When using a single weapon without a shield, you passively treated it as a two handed weapon to represent holding it with both hands.

2. Two handed weapons went from a x1.5 STR bonus to a x2

I liked it, as it encouraged rping other styles outside of sword/shield, two handed, and dual wielding.

[nobs3]

Kensai is a path that actively makes your character worse. That's not cool. Yes, we're going to fix the path. We (Peppermint and I) plan to improve the existing paths before we look at adding any new ones.

When last I looked at this, I was leaning toward giving two-handed weapons more synergy with power attack (e.g. if you power attack with a two-handed weapon, you gain +2 damage for each AB lost, instead of +1).

One kind of bonus is to give better statts - like it is discussed here very much (comparing perfect builds).

An other kind of bonus are "tools", some cool stuff, something that enhances rp. E.g. something that fits to kensai rp. rest = meditation = bonus or so. Or spell-like abilities...

Something like epic spell foci work...

Special movements/ action based effects for two handers? (e.g. special way to disarm (bonus), counter-attack...)

Just to inspire... (and to point at those that don't play perfect builds)

[TheVandals]

A makeshift solution to the kensai problem could be to assign an xp penalty to using potions and scrolls, instead of a total ban on them. The advantage to this would be that it would probably be easy to implement. The idea is, when you use a potion or scroll you've strayed slightly from your kensai path, and therefore are penalized. Even with this however, I'd still be interested to see some more rp-flavor-esque additions to the path. I find it's easier to get into character on my ranger because he has an array of skills and abilities that are roleplay rich, and that feeling is lost to me when I play kensai.

[dirza]

Give them immunities to magic, remove haste, keep trinkets forbidden

[Liareth]

Making kensai immune to magic? What could possibly go wrong.

[gilescorey]

Making kensai immune to magic? What could possibly go wrong.

You could give them monk-style spell resistance, maybe. But then you'd have to think about races that get SR, though the same issue with monks applies I guess

[Yellena]

Non monk SR can be reduced by spells and is capped (if you use the hide property and not scrypt) at 32 SR. That may be great at early and mid levels, but isn't really helpful at epics except against these low CL level spells.

There is a lvl 1 feat that makes a character completely immune to magic.. be it good or not. Not sure if would fit here tought.

The Kensai here in Arelith does not represent the Kensai from source books. They have a magic weapon imbued with his energy, that allows him to choose enchantments and such.

The version we have is more similar to an adapted Vow of Poverty. The vow of poverty is a feat that deny any costly items on characters aside very mundade and common poor items. That excludes, magic items potions and even masterwork on the character. But it does gains the following benefits (that would be op in arelith, just so you know):
Character Level Benefits
1st) AC bonus +4
2nd) Bonus exalted feat
3rd) AC bonus +5, endure elements
4th) Exalted strike +1 (magic), bonus exalted feat
5th) Sustenance
6th) AC bonus +6, deflection +1, bonus exalted feat
7th) Resistance +1, ability score enhancement +2
8th) Natural armor +1, mind shielding, bonus exalted feat
9th) AC bonus +7
10th) Exalted strike +2 (good), damage reduction 5/magic, bonus exalted feat
11th) Ability score enhancement +4/+2
12th) AC bonus +8, deflection +2, greater sustenance, bonus exalted feat
13th) Resistance +2, energy resistance 5
14th) Exalted strike +3, freedom of movement, bonus exalted feat
15th) AC bonus +9, ability score enhancement +6/+4/+2, damage reduction 5/evil
16th) Natural armor +2, bonus exalted feat
17th) Exalted strike +4, resistance +3, regeneration
18th) AC bonus +10, deflection +3, true seeing, bonus exalted feat
19th) Ability score enhancement +8/+6/+4/+2, damage reduction 10/evil
20th) Exalted strike +5, energy resistance 15, bonus exalted feat

Some possible conversion to arelith if they are really going to be "immune to good magic", would be to give them some constant buffs that aided defenses, and possible make the speed reduction scales down with level. Some examples are:
-Freedom
-Woodland Stride
-Individual effects Immunities (aka, poison, disease, charm/dominate spells but not complete mind immunity)
-Attribute (hard maybe?) and Skill bonuses based on style (fighter discipline, rogue stealth, barbarian DR...) to give them a touch.
-Some source of self healing (regeneration?)

What would be fun would be that every X levels they could choose a perk (haste included) from a pool (possible via console). So each kensai would master one style. With this, hard bonuses to skills and enchantments could be an option so they could get some feats earlier than normal giving them some uniqueness.

Edit: opening Kensai to some other warriors would be very fun too, removing their spell abilities (paladin, ranger, bard, wizard... ok couldn't resist)

[dirza]

Just do not give them stuff, that they beat crap out of dedicated meleers, and are secured against spells either.

[Flameborn]

Just do not give them stuff, that they beat crap out of dedicated meleers, and are secured against spells either.

If you take esf discipline, and drink one haste potion, you are perfectly matched for a kensai...

If you use anything else, such as a bulls potion...or a scroll of anything...you are now stronger then any kensai could ever be.

They are also horrible against spells, because they can't even drink a clarity.

[dirza]

Flameborn i know that.

But if they get immunities to spells their disadvatage is gone. If that happens, and they can counter magic trinkets, they will eat thrgouh meleers like through cakes and kick also mages. Even kensai can také fighter for bonuses and wm for dmg.

[gilescorey]

Flameborn i know that.

But if they get immunities to spells their disadvatage is gone. If that happens, and they can counter magic trinkets, they will eat thrgouh meleers like through cakes and kick also mages. Even kensai can také fighter for bonuses and wm for dmg.

no they won't
kensai is garbage
drink a haste potion, congrats you're literally a better kensai aside from the discipline bonus. in fact, you're actually /faster/ than a kensai so you can kite him if you want
not to mention you can do stuff like drink potions, use wands, et cetera
giving kensais won't make them OP, they need it to be even remotely competitive with other meleers past like, level 8. the only place where a kensai is decent at all is an antimagic zone, and there's two of those in the whole server as far as i know.
also earlier you were arguing to give them magic immunity so i don't know what this is about now

[dirza]

I was not arguing i was offering a way. And also told then remove their haste.

Issue is that kensai is not a class. It can be taken on large number of classes which can make troublesome round up the changes.

[gilescorey]

I was not arguing i was offering a way. And also told then remove their haste.

Issue is that kensai is not a class. It can be taken on large number of classes which can make troublesome round up the changes.

except that it's literally inferior to unpathed people in every instance aside from very early levels
if you're planning on playing a character until epic level, don't pick kensai. even then, a haste potion will make you a better kensai. they're just garbage, free haste or not. either it needs to be totally removed or completely overhauled

edit: and at this point we may be getting away from the purpose of this thread, which is to discuss the recent fighter changes. as you mentioned, kensai can be taken on a number of classes, not just fighter

[Peppermint]

I have earnestly proposed disabling the kensai path until it sees a complete overhaul. As is, it's just a trap for the uninformed. A really, appallingly poorly designed path.

I can't speak to whether that'll actually happen, but revising it is definitely on the to do list at some point.

[High Primate]

How about a special ability that temporarily give some immunities, like freedom and clarity, either increasing in duration as the kensai levels or increasing in number of uses per day (so no weave mastery)? Keeps all the other bonuses and restriction in place.

How about two special abilities, one focused on defense (like the above) and one focused on offense (perhaps gaining some AC and AB levels).

Could be scripted as an item with a unique power.

[Stath]

2 handed power attack buff *rubs chin*

[msterswrdsmn]

I have earnestly proposed disabling the kensai path until it sees a complete overhaul. As is, it's just a trap for the uninformed. A really, appallingly poorly designed path.

I can't speak to whether that'll actually happen, but revising it is definitely on the to do list at some point.

Agreed. Its horrible. Not being able to use ranged weapons kills your ability to pull enemies. Not being able to use magical items means you can't use scrolls, potions, wands, or 70 some percent of the random loot. +4 haste AC and an extra attack quickly looses its appeal as you level up, especially since the AC is dodge AC and easily lost.

[TheVandals]

It's been my experience that the biggest obstacle is not having a way to deal with the stat drains. That, and fear auras. The fear auras are more a problem with how NWN handles the effect of being feared, which always bothered me anyway. I started out thinking no-ranged, no-potions would be a bummer, and now it's one of my favourite aspects of the build. I drink a skleen and it's off to the races. I get 7 attacks per round, 3 of which are at my top attack bonus, and the permanent haste, in conjunction with the new fighter AC bonuses, really makes 2-weapon fighting a viable choice.

Honestly, I enjoy the rp associated with being a low-magic character. What'd be nice is if there were non-magical remedies to drains, and other non-magical tools at the kensai's disposal that allowed him a little more versatility.