Ship Upgrade Requests

You have questions? We may have answers.

Moderators: Active DMs, Forum Moderators

Locked
great balls of fire
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2023 10:30 pm

Ship Upgrade Requests

Post by great balls of fire » Sun Feb 04, 2024 12:02 am

It's exciting to see the Development Team interested in working with players to reflect RP in the module. I would love to know more about starting the communication between player and Devs for these collaborative projects.

What is the procedure for requesting unique upgrades to a ship from the Dev team?

I am specifically looking to know:

A.) What Developer to contact, and or if it is more appropriate to ask the group
B.) What Roleplay Effort (such as research, field tests, fundraising events, connecting with factions/cities, does the request need to come from a settlement, or faction, or individuals of certain RPR, etc) the player is expected to produce to warrant their request granted
C.) Should the player prepare a draft of a theme or idea they had in mind for the upgrade, or is this something work shopped?
D.) Are ship upgrade requests always to be accepted or are they at the discernment of the Developer? If the latter is the case, is it the discernment of the Developer asked, or can players "shop around" to find a Developer interested in the project?
addition. E.) How much can the player help? Are they allowed to submit assets, area maps, can they help with the process at all?

I understand there may not be any hard and fast rules; I'm more looking to understand what the Development/Staff expectations are of players who are looking to have module changes done to reflect their roleplay. I'm very excited to see the team be open to this sort of collaboration with the community when it comes to module changes.

Thank you in advance.


User avatar
MalKalz
Emeritus Admin
Emeritus Admin
Posts: 3040
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:33 pm

Re: Ship Upgrade Requests

Post by MalKalz » Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:00 am

Ships and the ship system is entirely in ActionReplays hand. Given the accusations of favoritism and rather rude behaviour of community members, I wouldn’t blame him if he stopped looking at the roleplay being done and just invest his time in doing what he wants with the system. I also don’t blame him from stepping back from it for some time too.

Discord: @malkalz
Determine your Public CD Key here
Can't see your vault? Have you migrated your accounts? If you have tried, and still can't see them, message me.


great balls of fire
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2023 10:30 pm

Re: Ship Upgrade Requests

Post by great balls of fire » Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:39 am

MalKalz wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:00 am

Ships and the ship system is entirely in ActionReplays hand. Given the accusations of favoritism and rather rude behaviour of community members, I wouldn’t blame him if he stopped looking at the roleplay being done and just invest his time in doing what he wants with the system. I also don’t blame him from stepping back from it for some time too.

Come on. Let's be real. Arelith doesn't make a habit of handing out Death Lasers to anybody that asks the right people and has a few mil in their bank account. Of course their upset. Shifting blame onto the players and implying the system is just going to stay as it is now as punishment for their response is extremely unprofessional.

But hey, I've got time, and I'm not afraid of catching a ban for advocating for the community: Let's unpack this.

No where in Arelith's documentation does it explain what Developer has purview over what system, nor does it explain that Arelith's development is split up this way. There's no way for any inquiring mind to know who to ask about pitching their specific RP idea to without intimate knowledge of Dev Team Lore, and so it's difficult for anyone to be able to pitch their ideas without that Dev Lore. I certainly didn't know AR is the Ship Guy.

Furthermore, Arelith has historically declined player requests to start Loot Quests, or sizable RP Efforts consisting of player driven events, multi-faction/settlement collaboration, IC Research/Happenings, and Big $$$$ investments in the pursuit of Cool Thematic Gizmo/Ship/Quarter (Loot). Which is to say, Arelith doesn't exactly make a habit of handing out Death Lasers to just anybody who asks with 2mil in their bank account. The precedent is pretty clear that this kind of thing just doesn't fly, especially if it would give one group of players a mechanical advantage over others.

So, that means: the only way the average player would know about how to pitch for a change or know who to approach to collab on a project or talk to about a system, would be to have that Dev Lore, which requires having a relationship with Development team in some capacity OOC (in that you have to know who they are and how to ask them these questions) OR spending considerable time looking through old posts and patch notes. In either case, the knowledge on who to talk to about what is not readily accessible has now proven to afford at least one group of people a mechanical advantage over others.

You really just cannot pretend it's unreasonable for players to be surprised and upset. It of course doesn't warrant anyone being toxic, cruel, hateful, or mean spirited to any staff or ActionReplay. But come on. Server Management dropped the ball here, not players. A simple "sorry, my bad" would suffice.

In regards to my first question, I'm still keen to know (as I'm sure are many others) if the ships will remain as is, if they'll be rolled back, if another Dev is willing to step up to collaborate projects with players, or, if another Dev will be taking over to make balancing adjustments. This doesn't require an immediate answer; I'm sure staff will want to meaningfully discuss what to do going forward as to avoid any emotional responses.

With all that being said....

I think what ActionReplay did is, actually kind of awesome. It's exciting to see an openness to collaboration between player and developer, be it mechanical or flavor. It really lends back to the "good old days" the server was known for the potential to make big lasting changes to the module through being cool and compelling. The community speaks candidly with Devs in the Official Discord channel these days, and suggestions are being implemented all the time according to the discernment of the Devs. It's really fantastic, and I'd love to see more of this kind of thing, not less.

My main question here is:
Are Mechanical Benefit Cookies for a given faction/settlement/ship on the table for players to request from Devs?
If so, what is the protocol for sending in ideas, what are the staff expectations of players for requesting these things, who can make these requests, and who do we direct them to?

I hope you find my essay constructive and my questions helpful.


User avatar
Irongron
Server Owner/Creative Lead
Server Owner/Creative Lead
Posts: 4691
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:13 pm

Re: Ship Upgrade Requests

Post by Irongron » Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:29 am

I don't want to get into this again, other than to say some really problematic rumours were flying around - that this was done for a member of staff, and that it was done due to OOC connections of some kind.

When I read that I was, of course, super concerned - and checked. Both these accusations, being reported as fact, were untrue.

Instead it was the second of two separate occasions where players, not staff members had approached Action Replay about changes he then made. He also told me he had nerfed said ship, would do so again if there were major issues, and that the addition itself was temporary.

As for how they knew he was 'the ship guy', I can only presume from the update thread?

Asking devs or DMs for changes, based upon RP isn't new, and has gone on for many years. Sometimes it is an area change, sometimes a quest.

Ships, are something different though, due to their mechanical/pvp power so I fully understood the concern, indeed I shared it, but what I could not tolerate, and will not in future, is specific staff members being called out by name and wrongfully accused, or people posting that this was an 'inside' job, without even bothering to ask me first.

I also don't agree the development staff, in this case AR, 'dropped the ball' on this at all. He is entirely at liberty to make changes to his system as he sees fit, and has an established history of listening to, and responding to polite player feedback. Had I been able to point him towards such a thread, rather than a string of tin foil hat accusations as to his character and motivation I expect this would have been resolved already.

No other members of our development staff are versed in his system at all; this is a pet project of a professional developer who otherwise has very little involvement in the day to day of Arelith, as a staff member or player.

At a guess? I doubt he will respond to any other player requests after this, and may well end up taking an indefinite break from Arelith development. I know from experience that doing volunteer work of this kind loses its lustre if those one is doing it for start behaving as if they are entitled to it, grow insulting, or fighting over it. In this case all three of those boxes have been checked.

Perhaps the better question is to ask me whether I would consider handing his project over to somebody else? Or if will, in future insist his work and choices are supervised by a third party? The first would be a huge insult, even if it were possible (it isn't btw), and the second would be a massive overreaction to what is, I believe, an issue that has been blown out of all proportion.

It may help to understand one of my philosophies when dealing with volunteer developers: they have no obligation to work, it should be something that is fun, and to be done only when they find their motivation. What projects they work on are their own choice, so long as they have been approved, and I will very rarely assign tasks to them. In short - work on what you want to, when you want to. That is why ships are AR's project, that is why I cannot offer a timetable, and that is why I cannot simply ask another developer to take over.

It is also why Arelith enjoys such active development.


User avatar
Irongron
Server Owner/Creative Lead
Server Owner/Creative Lead
Posts: 4691
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:13 pm

Re: Ship Upgrade Requests

Post by Irongron » Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:54 am

great Pufferfish of fire wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:39 am

But hey, I've got time, and I'm not afraid of catching a ban for advocating for the community

While I'm of course glad to see the people have finally found their champion, I really do despair at such comments

I have never once known anyone to 'catch a ban' for voicing an opinion, or asking questions on the forums, unless they have been actually insulting people. The insinuation that this happens is a poison to the community, and leaves me in no way inclined to engage with your feedback in future.

(My actual answer is in the post above this one, and yes - I've locked this thread.)


Locked