Citizenship Lists

[SteelsSweets]

Is there any chance settlement leaders will be able to see who is a "supporter" again anytime soon?

I just think it very strange that someone who was elected into office can't see the names of those who are citizens.

[Cortex]

If this is an actual change and not a bug, it's maybe to avoid easily finding out opposition to exile them.

[Scurvy Cur]

I'll go digging for quotes from when the change went in, but I am at least 90% certain that this change was made intentionally, to make it harder for settlement leaders to exile anyone who they aren't sure is supporting them.

[SteelsSweets]

Then can it be scripted to not allow exile during elections?

If a leader is going to exile on assumption and an election isn't currently going on, then that just creates story. The exiled has the chance to play puppet master to quietly get an ally in power.

Additionally, how can leaders of race specific settlements monitor who joins to make sure they are of X race?

I know citizenship is perm now but I still think there should be a way to see a list.

[Cortex]

Rooting out opposition also creates story.

[grip]

...and pushes players to quit characters. Not to say that is what "we" want, but often the truth.

[Lorkas]

It's my opinion that people who quit their characters when times get a little hard are cheating themselves out of the very thing that makes any story interesting.

[Yma23]

I absolutly agree with Cortex and Grip, keeping the citizenship list secret is definatly a fantastic idea! Especialy with citizenship being perminent now. It means that settlment leaders must remain on their toes to continue to gather and keep support. And fewer people are taking citizenship because its perminence.

Seriously, please keep it the way it is! It'd become extremely abusable otherwise.

[Scurvy Cur]

While I would normally be inclined to agree with you, Lorkas, the fact is that this forces your would be ruthless dictator to actually engage with people to find their enemies out. IMO, this -should- be harder than asking an NPC for a list of citizens and who voted for them last election.

One might even go so far as to say that any settlement leader who isn't willing to put down the effort required IC effort to try finding this out is "cheating themselves out of the very thing which makes any story interesting".

If you, as a player, think there's some funny business going on like a bunch of elves taking Bendir citizenship to run the halflings out if town, drop the DMs a line and ask them to look into it. DM involvement is sufficient to this task.

The only other reasons I can think of that settlement leaders would like to know who the citizens are and who is supporting whom are goals better achieved through IG investigation, and developing a sense for the people one can trust and the people one cannot. Asking for this information to be available with absolute accuracy via a completely trustworthy NPC is asking for a crutch to deal with one of the thornier problems of leadership.

[SteelsSweets]

For the record, I never asked to know who voted for whom.

[Lorkas]

I'm definitely not saying that the list should be visible (I am glad that it isn't for all the reasons outlined by yourself and others in this thread).

All that I'm saying is that people should not quit their character because one town (even the town of their citizenship) exiles them. It's an opportunity for interesting storytelling.

[Kuma]

I think the idea is that you don't have a List of Citizens With The Power To Vote any more. You may have citizens, denizens, rebels, magnates, nobility, generals, or any number of things - people who associate themselves and support the settlement - thus you don't see the word 'citizens', you see 'supporters'.

Elections are now more demonstrations of support that are formalised via an NPC but seem, to me, representative of more of a nebulous form of political powermongery than simply a list of ballot papers.

Whether you like it or not*, citizenship lists are unlikely to come back, because citizenship is no longer a formalised, scripted process. It's not a thing any more, even if the system is identical and just got a thematic renaming.

* not a fan here, due to how easy it is to get utterly locked out of participating in the settlement system

[P Three]

I think the idea is that you don't have a List of Citizens With The Power To Vote any more. You may have citizens, denizens, rebels, magnates, nobility, generals, or any number of things - people who associate themselves and support the settlement - thus you don't see the word 'citizens', you see 'supporters'.

Elections are now more demonstrations of support that are formalised via an NPC but seem, to me, representative of more of a nebulous form of political powermongery than simply a list of ballot papers.

Whether you like it or not*, citizenship lists are unlikely to come back, because citizenship is no longer a formalised, scripted process. It's not a thing any more, even if the system is identical and just got a thematic renaming.

* not a fan here, due to how easy it is to get utterly locked out of participating in the settlement system

I like these points. And the asterisked point.

I also think it would be nice if the IC reflected that.

[Tathkar Eisgrim]

So...

...it is a political system without centralised records. The idea of a census is non-Realmsian? I think that makes sense. i.e. It also allows for the political system to include the sweep of illegal / under-the-counter dealings above and beyond (below and beneath?) modern RL elections (Zhentarim influences, Harper Influences etc.)