Weave Master: CD per Spell Level

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

I don't find 'we must search for a safe location away from the monsters' RP very entertaining after the nth time.

Instead, sorcerers, wizards, clerics, and druids should do their best to RP the situation and when it would be appropriate or not to call for a rest.

It doesn't make sense to call for a rest n times at all (where n is a number greater than 1 on a single outing of reasonable length), but because casters throw spells around like crazy and keep themselves at negative rest, they have to choose to be more conservative with their spell usage or to start seeing beds everywhere. Some casters I have traveled with don't even RP it at all--they just plop down when there are no monsters around and the entire party has to huddle around them.

No-rest zones help a little bit in some areas but what would really help (I think) is a change in the script so that certain zones where resting does not make sense (most dungeons) spawn a group of enemies that could be a serious threat to the party's survival, if, say, someone decided to drop all of their wards by resting in that place where it doesn't make sense. Putting an actual mechanical threat (to back up the threat that should already be RPd) would make more players start to think about these things and adjust their RP accordingly.

Normally I can feel where you're coming from even when we have opposite opinions, Lorkas, but in this one I'm a little confused. Why do you find it immersion breaking to secure a room in a dungeon and rest there? Isn't it just as immersion breaking to say "well, we almost died and we're out of spells, guess we should just blindly charge ahead/turn back"? It would certainly make more sense to not enter than to turn back once you've committed so far.

If I may suggest, is perhaps part of the problem the impatience of having to wait fifteen seconds + a 'buff cycle?' I firmly believe these short rest periods (in PnP, it only takes 1 hour to prepare your full allotment of spells, and for a lesser portion, it can take as few as 15 minutes), are easily workable into the RP in a much more organic, sensible fashion than 'well, this is dangerous, guess we'd better go on without a source of magic even though we almost got our butts kicked with it."

I can understand how in the heat of the moment you don't want to wait those 15 seconds, but I do not understand why it is immersion breaking. Bunking down behind enemy lines is standard affair for all siege-based warfare, and I'm not sure what else you could argue invading a monster's dungeon is.

[Lorkas]

It's not a matter of waiting 15 seconds, it's that I have traveled with too many people who don't consider that sometimes we are in an RP scenario where an hour or 15 minutes is not a cost that we can afford to pay at the moment. I am not suggesting that no one should ever rest while adventuring--I'm suggesting that if it has to happen 3 times in 2 hours, is done without consulting with the rest of the party or RPing it at all, and is done at a time when the RP of the situation is that we are in an extreme rush to accomplish something before an enemy brings their plan to eminent fruition, then I see it as mechanics jarringly ripping the control of the situation away from RP.

It probably has more to do with recent frustrating experiences than a real trend in the server though, as this isn't a thing that I have felt was a major problem with the RP of the server community for most of my time here.

[Scurvy Cur]

Lorkas, pretty much every dungeon already has a high chance to spawn extra hostiles if the full party rests. This is a pretty acceptable compromise in my mind. If you take turns resting, its more or less treated as having someone on watch against the monsters, if you all rest at once, you may be in trouble.

[Cortex]

I think if people just plop down to rest with no RP whatsoever, the problem is not the class.

[Lorkas]

I am in agreement there, Cortex, and am not at all saying the classes are to blame. I have also seen this done by high-HP barbarians to get a quick full-heal, or just because the character was low on rest%, and neither of those is any better.

@scurvycur I know that, but it is strange that there is no chance whatsoever of being ambushed when sleeping just because 1+ people are on watch. If there was even a small risk of the caster gaining a little bit of rest (and of course getting their party ambushed) without replenishing spells, I think it would make people think more carefully about whether or not resting in a hostile territory is worth the risk (because there should be a risk! There is none currently).

[Cortex]

Make a suggestion about it

[Lorkas]

I will as soon as I think over the idea a bit more. There are a couple that I've been thinking of but haven't had time to fully think through to the point where I would be able to propose a system instead of just say what I see as a problem

[Scurvy Cur]

See, I think the system as it is gives a good balance between allowing an ambush to occur, and being sufficiently forgiving. If I were to put together a changed ambush system, though, I'd probably design it as follows:

- Run the check at the very beginning of the rest cycle, and trigger the hostile spawn before rest ticks happen; this is to avoid completely borking rest meters. If you're going to be interrupted out of your sleep to the point you don't get abilities back, it should also not make you less tired.

-Script the chance such that the person with the highest combined spot/listen/search score in the party determines the likelihood of getting ambushed; play this off as noticing the patrol in time to get everyone safely out of the way, it's a bit of a kludge, but a good one to have, I feel.

-Make patrol monsters a special 1/4 CR variant, so that they are worth the minimum 1 XP. This is similar to the reason angry trees have this CR: you never want the party to go "awesome we got ambushed that's 200 extra XP!"

-Simultaneously change rest so that it no longer functions as a full greater restoration. Let it instead restore HP equal to con score, and allow an extra roll against periodical checks like disease.