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ArcanaFTW
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Kensai questions.

Post by ArcanaFTW » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:54 pm

So I'm considering whether taking Kensai or not would be worth it, the build is Fighter/Paladin/CoT and doesn't have any spells to use, though I have another as well, does Kensai stop you from using Turn Undead, or any of the other abilities like that?

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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by yellowcateyes » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:09 pm

Taking kensai is never worth it. Hue hue hue hue.

On a serious note, your paladin's capacity to mount heroic rescues will be diminished by his inability to read Raise Dad scrolls.
Last edited by yellowcateyes on Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by NobleHeart » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:12 pm

Pretty sure you can't be a Kensia/paladin unless that has changed.

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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by IndifferentPerson » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:57 pm

Kensai cannot take any spellcasting class, that includes paladin, ranger and bard. PrCs are an exception, but their spell like abilitys won't work regardless.

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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by The Rambling Midget » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:44 pm

yellowcateyes wrote:On a serious note, your paladin's capacity to mount heroic rescues will be diminished by his inability to read Raise Dad scrolls.
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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by God In Action » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:04 am

Kensai isn't worth it right now, if you play to epic levels and like getting the most from your builds.

It's worth it if you only play up to mid levels, or like the sort of character you can plug and play without having to worry about a daft 6 minute buffing session from 7 different spell levels, 5 different wands, and 3 UMDed scrolls. Also worth it if you have a dedicated play group and can regularly depend on having a dedicated caster or cleric to buff you.

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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by yellowcateyes » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:11 am

All typos are intentional until proven otherwise.

I am getting the feeling that you're asking whether or not you can combine Kensai with the Divine Might / Shield line of feats? I believe you can, as neither qualify as spellcasting or spell-like abilities. But it would undercut the basic premise of what a kensai is.

You might still be able to do it as a Blackguard. But really, don't go kensai.
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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by Winter83 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:47 am

Kensai rogue hin= The true spymaster. Sneaking around super fast.

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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by yellowcateyes » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:54 am

A sneaky DEX-based monk does the job of being a fast spy just as well. Ninja.
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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by Chalan » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:28 am

Kensai rogue elf, for the auto search?
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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by Winter83 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:25 am

Conclusion: Kensai elven monk/rogue as the ultimate spymaster

EDIT: Casting classes are not compatible with Kensai. No ranger, paladin kensais.

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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by b a t t l e » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:29 am

Rogue would still be terrible. In fact, it'd be more terrible than a kensai barbarian, because the single best thing rogues get after sneak attack (and even then only maybe ~after) is Use Magic Device. Strongest skill in the game.

Losing access to the strongest skill in the game for a paltry boost to a skill you don't debatably need and an extra attack you can't ever boost up on your own (no potions, no scrolls, wizard buddy only, final destination) is ridiculous. Bonus points, it even makes you worse for partying: You now need double the buffs you would've if even a potion were an option, making less spells to go around for your allies. And 'spymaster?' You'll be a terrible spy! No way to see invisible creatures, no emergency invisibility for yourself, no countering scrying or protecting yourself from spells. No camoflage, mass camoflage, or one with the land, no clairvoyance to boost your spot against other sneaks. Having 'speed' just don't do it.

Having played a fair share of kensais, unless for whatever reason you are literally in love with the idea of permahaste, just take a UMD class and a haste wand/stack of points. It is a thousand times better and you'll save yourself a hell of a lot of frustration.

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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by Opustus » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:48 pm

Huzzah for necropost!

Question on Kensai: Does +1 saves vs Spells from Kensai stack with other similar bonuses, such as the bonus from every 5 effective ranks in Spellcraft?

Can Kensai still use class abilities, namely the Shadowdancer spells: Summon Shadow, Shadow Evade, Shadow Daze?

Fun extra question: How exactly does Blindfight react with concealment? If I were to go Self-Concealment II, what would the concealment bonus be after the Blindfight rendering?
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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by kittenblackfriends » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:51 pm

No Kensai should be able to take spellcraft. Kensai can use some class abilities (maybe summon shadow but not shadow daze). Blindfight just rolls the concealment roll twice vs a concealed target.
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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by Lorkas » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:54 pm

Basically, blind fight squares the miss chance. So if you have 20% concealment, the miss chance would be 0.2 without blindfight, or 0.2^2 = 0.04 (4%) with blindfight.

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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by If Valor Were Inches » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:11 pm

kittenblackfriends wrote:No Kensai should be able to take spellcraft. Kensai can use some class abilities (maybe summon shadow but not shadow daze). Blindfight just rolls the concealment roll twice vs a concealed target.
Kensai can cross-class spellcraft, allowing additional bonuses for every 5 ranks from your base added to any bonus.

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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by Opustus » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:21 pm

Thanks for the quick responses. If Valor Were Inches and Lorkas are correct on both accounts. Valor, do you know if the bonus from it stacks with the Kensai saves vs. spells bonus?

Does anyone have verified information about the SD abilities? Anywhere I can test this stuff myself?
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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by Iceborn » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:33 pm

Kensai can use all SD abilities.

I think that spellcraft stacks with Kensai saves, but I can't really remember.
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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by Lorkas » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:46 pm

They do stack, but only up to the +20 limit.

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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by SwampFoot » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:59 pm

I'll be the voice of dissent. Kensai on a fighter/WM build is worth it for the easy of use. Sure, that 3 dip in rogue will add some damn nice boons to a non-kensai, but there's a freedom to being ready to fight RIGHT NOW.

Let's not forget that Kensai also receives Freedom. That means any holding or slowing spells are useless against them.

Also. Kensai can use raise dead scrolls. Mine uses one everyday.

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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by Opustus » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:09 pm

SwampFoot, I resurrected this topic to ask additional questions. I think the OP's been covered.
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If Valor Were Inches
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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by If Valor Were Inches » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:18 pm

In General, if its a special ability, and not a spell, a Kensai can use it.

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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by Hunter548 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:20 pm

If Valor Were Inches wrote:In General, if its a special ability, and not a spell, a Kensai can use it.
There's also some items that have a spell use ability that kensais can use, too. Dust of Appearance/Disappearance, iirc, among others.
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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by Astral » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:42 pm

What? Kensai can use Dust of Disappearance? That's awesome. As far as I know there's no Mundane label on the dust.

I play a blackguard kensai in the ud server and I have to say it definitely worth it if you solve the will save problem and I can confirm that kensai bonus saves stack with spellcraft.
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Re: Kensai questions.

Post by Seekeepeek » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:40 am

Might wanna replace fighter with purple knight if you can, when and if it get added in that form...
http://wiki.arelith.com/(Purple_Dragon)_Knight

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