Build advice Melee

[Ozzy.nl]

Alright I dusted of a build from a year ago and it is now at level 14 it is a fighter rogue BG build.

Now I have been testing as I lost the original build a while ago.
I come up with a replacement build and in the end that build will give me four attacks a round at +40/+35/+30/+25 and with full wards I get a nice 45 AC with Divine shield.

This was tested with greensteel weapons and Mithril armor helm and shield so the end result should be a little higher.

Now I am wondering are these a little up to par for Arelith and give a chalange to some builds or is this just a have fun around the server build but you wont last?

[The Man of the Moon]

Hi.

How many fighter levels?

By each five fighter levels you get now a bonus for +1 AC to shield, helmet and armor, and +1 enhancement to your equiped weapons...

That means as level 10 fighter you can have bronze shield, helmet and armor equiped giving you the same AC bonus as mithril, fo becoming free to enchant those armor pieces for more profit.

That means as 15 level fighter, you give to your broze gear the capabilities of adamantine, free to get it enchanted aswell...

As level 20: gear +4 AC, weapon +4...
As level 25: +5 bonus; as level 30, bonus +6.

So, unless you wanted to become BG for RP reasons, I suggest you going for:

26 fighter/4 rogue (+5 weapon; +5 AC armor, shield, helmet)
20 fighter/3rogue/7 weapon master (+4 weapon and AC on armor, helmet, shield, plus formidable critical hits)

That if you want to keep the most fighter levels for better AC, feats, and most formidable weapons...

Your AC for a 25-26 fighter and 5-4 Rogue may be:
10 (base)
8 (full plate)
1 (dex allowed by the plate)
5 (fighter bonus to armor)
5 (fighter bonus to helmet)
5 (fighter bonus to shield)
3 (tower shield)
1 (boots enchanted)
6 (Tumble 30)
2 (Epic feat armor skin)
_______________

46 AC (UNBUFFED)

47 AC (With Dodge vs. a single foe)

49 AC (With potion: Barskin: +3 AC)

50 AC (With wand: Barskin: +4 AC)

50 AC (With wand/potion: Haste +4 AC)

51 AC (With Expertise)

52 AC (With Expertise + dodge)

56 AC (With Expertise + dodge+ wand: Barskin)

51 AC (With Improved Expertise)

60 AC (With Expertise + dodge+ wand: Barskin + Haste)

65 AC (With Improved Expertise + dodge+ wand: Barskin + Haste)

66 AC atop if you use also magic shield spell...

If you go for 20 fighter levels, you lower by 3 this AC, but you get from 7 weapon master ranks unstopable critical strikes... (unless against undead (and pale masters), golems and some elementals)


About the attacks... You will get full BAB, with all the kind of great feats as fighter to keep the best AB and dmg posible... and getting awesome bonus from those fighter feature too...

You will need to make a small sacrifice as to wait patiently to get the rogue levels in epics, as to keep the best optimization... but once you pick your first rogue elvel, you will suddenly improve your character in an impresive way (evasion, umd, tumble for +6 AC... and more)

[Ozzy.nl]

The BG levels are for RP reason really, and I was thinking of dipping all the way to 16 with BG.

Level spread would be something like 4 rogue 10 fighter 16 black guards

right now he is 3 rogue 6 fighter 5 blackguard

Current stats are 18 str 8 dex 16 con 14 int 8 wis 16 cha.

[Jagel]

16 bg should net you the new epic BG summon (if you take the feat). According to Yellena it's worth the investment

[Ozzy.nl]

That was my plan *nod nod* But even the finedish summon as now, the imp one is pretty sweet.

[The Man of the Moon]

So as you need to fullfill these recquirements...

Feats: Hide 5 ranks
• Skills: Cleave
• Alignment: Any evil
• Base Attack Bonus: +6

You will need something like:

Become as fighter (up to level 4) Don't forget to pick power attack to get cleave too.
Continue as rogue (must be another 3 level). Pick at least 1 sm, open looks and disable rtaps, within your 5 hide ranks. And: umd, tumble.
As soon as you match BAB +6, start as BG untill you reached 10 pre-epic levels...
Remnant fill as fighter if you get odd levels (for feats, and more BAB)

As soon as you become level 20, next is BG back... to complete your 16 levels as BG.

Before end as 30, an extra rogue level might be gerat to max your tumble to 30 ranks (for that sweet 6 AC). umd goal is 15 sp.

In the process, you won't get profit yet from the fighter bonus as you may become 10 fighter only on high character level, and then you may have mithril and above...

If you want, I may use the calculator to design a plantiff from where you can start.

[Ozzy.nl]

The above I have already done, and I was planning out the levels as you sugest, so that pretty much is the same.

As I tested the build today while using mithril armor shield and helmet and greensteel weapon I ended up with the AC and AB as stated above. AC I got while using divine shield, barkskin and catgrace, so with adamantium armor shield and helmet and using a wand of shield it should be around 49 AC if I am right?

So I wonder is that enough to be anything decent with the epic fiend summon or is it to low?

[The Man of the Moon]

The above I have already done, and I was planning out the levels as you sugest, so that pretty much is the same.

As I tested the build today while using mithril armor shield and helmet and greensteel weapon I ended up with the AC and AB as stated above. AC I got while using divine shield, barkskin and catgrace, so with adamantium armor shield and helmet and using a wand of shield it should be around 49 AC if I am right?

So I wonder is that enough to be anything decent with the epic fiend summon or is it to low?

49 AC is a very decent AC for an almost mundane class as warrior.

Are you using towershield or medium shield? (remember in AC meanings, a greensteel medium= Mithril towershield), the greensteel one won't provide the 10% im

[The Man of the Moon]

Your AC may be:
10 (base)
8 (full plate)
1 (dex allowed by the plate)
2 (fighter bonus to armor)
2 (fighter bonus to helmet)
2 (fighter bonus to shield)
3 (tower shield)
1 (boots enchanted)
6 (Tumble 30) --> Your level 27 to 30 shall include the fourth rogue level, to optimice tumble)
2 (Epic feat armor skin)
_______________

37 AC (UNBUFFED)

38 AC (With Dodge vs. a single foe)
40 AC (With potion: Barskin: +3 AC)
41 AC (With wand: Barskin: +4 AC)
41 AC (With wand/potion: Haste +4 AC)
42 AC (With Expertise)
43 AC (With Expertise + dodge)
47 AC (With Expertise + dodge+ wand: Barskin)
47 AC (With Improved Expertise)
51 AC (With Expertise + dodge+ wand: Barskin + Haste)
56 AC (With Improved Expertise + dodge+ wand: Barskin + Haste)
57 AC atop if you use also magic shield spell...

And I am not counting here your guards as BG

Add +3 AC if you can get an adaamntine set at level 17+ (should not be imposible at all... even if you buy the adamantine, calculate around 25k to 30k per ingot, then get a friendly smith or yourself crafting the armor set)

Without adamantine, at your level 30 you may give mithril propierty to your gear, even if that was bronze, due your 10 fighter levels (for a 10 fighter, 4 rogue, 16 bg)

[Ozzy.nl]

Using all that plus the +5 from divine shield and it add up to 63...thats pretty sweet actually.

Only thing I kinda fear is that fat that Experties gives a penelty to attack rolls, of -5 thats a pretty huge hit on AB.

[The Man of the Moon]

Using all that plus the +5 from divine shield and it add up to 63...thats pretty sweet actually.

All the optimiced was 57 AC (for improved expertise, haste, wand barskin etc)

May be 60 if dressed in Adamantine...

EDIT: With divine shield you will get 65 AC (dressed in adamantine and the other features, guards, etc), assuming your charisma bonus was +5.

[Ozzy.nl]

With divine shield you will get extra +2 atop the +3 from adamantine calculation.

So: 62 AC (be aware you are losing 10 AB while using improved expertise...but still awesome)
great.

Doesnt divine shield stack up on all other AC and use the charisma modifier so in my case a +5 concidering the cha items my character already uses to get 20 cha.

And I'll concider the idea of Improved experties,though a AB 30 sounds a little low.

[The Man of the Moon]

With divine shield you will get extra +2 atop the +3 from adamantine calculation.

So: 62 AC (be aware you are losing 10 AB while using improved expertise...but still awesome)
great.

Doesnt divine shield stack up on all other AC and use the charisma modifier so in my case a +5 concidering the cha items my character already uses to get 20 cha.

And I'll concider the idea of Improved experties,though a AB 30 sounds a little low.

You are right, I mistook that with a diferent thing.

With Divine Shield the character may add his Charisma bonus to his AC fora duration equal to the CHA bonus rounds. So if you have +5 CHA, then yes, +5 AC during 5 rounds.

You get the AC you say (62 in mithril, but 65 if dressed in adamantine)

[miesny_jez]

Divine Shield is Dodge Bonus and it stacks as all dodge bonuses until a certain cap.

Dodge bonus caps at 20. Other things adding to Dodge bonus are:

Tumble (+6) max
Haste (+4)
Dodge feat (+1)
Boots enchant (+1, unless Artifact item)
Bard Song (depends on the bard)
Dwarven Defender Stance (+4)
Mage Armor (+1)

And I think that's all.

[one day remains]

Actually neither the dodge feat or tumble ac are gained as actual dodge AC (though they behave the same) so they all stack with the 20.

[msterswrdsmn]

^ Yeah, Dodge/tumble are treated as dodge AC for the purposes of loosing it (flatfooted, flanked, etc). The actual AC is thrown in the miscellaneous "other" section.

Ballpark numbers for melee builds?
Keep your AB at least 10 points higher than your character level (before things like expertise).
Keep your discipline score higher than your AC.
Keep an eye on your saves/skills. Boost/vary them when you can.

Thats a general guideline that I usually follow consistantly all throughout the level progression.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

?
Keep your AB at least 10 points higher than your character level (before things like expertise).

This isn't something achievable right out of the gate (obviously), but in terms of progression, when would you start keeping something like this in mind? level 7? 13? 18?

[Lorkas]

It's achievable pretty early for a high-STR meleer (or a high-DEX ranged or finesse attacker).

If you start with 16 STR, take weapon focus, and get an iron weapon as soon as you can, then you'll already be at level+5, possibly as early as level 3.

Use any money you get to invest in +1 STR enchantments and you could conceivably reach level+10 AB before leveling up to level 4. It isn't too likely without good luck, but by level 4 or 5 you could easily reach that mark if you set your mind to that specific goal.

[msterswrdsmn]

?
Keep your AB at least 10 points higher than your character level (before things like expertise).

This isn't something achievable right out of the gate (obviously), but in terms of progression, when would you start keeping something like this in mind? level 7? 13? 18?

Pretty much as soon as you can. Preferably before you hit double digits, when multiple attacks and combat feats really start to play a large role in your survivability.

Its feasible to do almost immediately, but things usually get to that mark once you start getting semi-decent gear and steady access to potions...about 7-8 in my experience?