-polymorph ?

[CragOrion]

What exactly does this do? There's no explanation in the console or on the wiki that I could find. I try and use it with my mage and it does nothing.

[Mayonnaise]

I believe Druids can use it to go into Totem Shape.

[The Rambling Midget]

Correct. Eventually, it will also allow Werewolves to unshift.

Currently, it isn't set up to turn red for characters who can't use it.

[Cortex]

Also some 5%s.

[The Rambling Midget]

Oh, right, yes. It does your Rakshasa and Dragon transformations, too.

[Montaugh]

For Druids it does nothing.

For a Totem it allows them to shift to their Totem form an infinite number of times per day from level 1 and up...

[Nulstarius]

To clarify a little further for totem druids, it's a free action to shift really, you shift instantly in and out of form as quick as you can hit the quickslot, and you can do it while fighting or running, there is no animation or time spent changing the shape. It also breaks the effect of holding spells or the like, and it makes a high lvl totem druid about impossible to kill, since they can just exit and enter shape again instantly the moment their crazy amount of temporary hit points is struck off them and start all over. We are talking a lot of temporary hit points, endless hit points really.

[Paint It Black]

I would add that the ability to shapechange while the character is disabled has been observed to change the outcome of both PVP and PVE encounters in favor of the totem.

From a design standpoint, the ability to shift instantly in any situation appears to eliminate the inherent risk of being in their normal form which was the trade off for gaining power in animal form.

[Erin Greene]

I have to admit I agree that the shapechange, if NOTHING else, should at least have a cooldown or take time. It doesnt need to be a long cooldown or a long amount of time, but instant is silly.

[Flameborn]

To clarify a little further for totem druids, it's a free action to shift really, you shift instantly in and out of form as quick as you can hit the quickslot, and you can do it while fighting or running, there is no animation or time spent changing the shape. It also breaks the effect of holding spells or the like, and it makes a high lvl totem druid about impossible to kill, since they can just exit and enter shape again instantly the moment their crazy amount of temporary hit points is struck off them and start all over. We are talking a lot of temporary hit points, endless hit points really.

It is a free action, but it does break running and other animations.

It doesnt break any holding spell or stun.

I do agree it should have a cooldown though, so you can't just swap back and forth to avoid damage.

[Lorkas]

The old way to do this was hitting -save (it would basically do what hitting a -polymorph hotkey twice instantly would do when you're in totem form), and that was once per minute and called out on the forums by one DM as an exploit that they would smite someone over, so I would caution against using -polymorph in this way in PvP or PvM.

I think it's safe to say that when characters get infinite hitpoints and infinite hold-breaking due to a custom script that wasn't specifically stated as giving that ability that it's a unintended behavior and possibly even considered an exploit if used, especially against other PCs. I'm curious why some people are saying it does break hold and some are not--does it work on certain types of holding and not others or something?

[Ferret Roll]

I've never seen it break a hold, but I've never tried using it for that.

It would make (some) sense for certain forms of holding to break when you completely change your shape though - roots holding you in place shouldn't any longer if your feet become far smaller in an instant.

I don't imagine it should apply to hold person or hold monster though. Because those are enchantments rather than physical restrictions holding a creature down.

[Lorkas]

Druids are immune to the root- and web-style holding spells anyway as a class feature, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Maybe the argument could be made for the Bigbyses, but for balance I'd prefer that it didn't work there either and we say either that the druid is incapable of shifting while held in any way, or the hand closes in on them as they become smaller.

How does it act with respect to fear and time stop? You shouldn't be able to shift in either of those circumstances, but my guess is that you can.

[Mithreas]

Using -polymorph repeatedly in battle is an exploit, and I do smite people for it. That said, adding a timeout would not be unreasonable either.

[Nulstarius]

It doesn't hurt running if you use hotkeys over point and click. And you can break free of a hold person with it, you can even shift during timestop. So I've witnessed first hand unless it was just lag, but doubt it, will test and make absolutely certain.

[Ecstatic]

You can shift during a timestop, but you still get that 9 seconds of immobility, and I believe also flat-foot yourself, which negates the huge totem shape AC bonus. This means that, at best, the polymorph serves as an HP pad to tank up whatever damage you're about to take inside the timestop. I almost want to call it legitimate counterplay to a timestop+burst damage strategy.

Cycling it for free HP (seen this happen in PvP at least once) is definitely not desirable, and I am of the mind that adding a cooldown to remove the possibility is definitely superior to retroactively smiting people that do it.

[Lorkas]

You can also activate counterspell during a time stop, but neither that nor shifting during a time stop makes much sense to me, since in game terms the character is not even aware that a time stop is occurring until it's over.

[Paint It Black]

To summarize, -polymorph allows a Totem to:

Shift while prone from any form of knockdown.
Shift while running at full speed without breaking stride.
Shift while under fear effects.
Shift while paralyzed, held, or dominated.
Shift while under the effect of Time Stop.
Shift an infinite amount of times from level 1.
Shift instantaneously.
Its might break a character lose from effects but I haven't tested this.

Even with a cooldown, the extreme strategic advantages above creates a situation where the intended risk of being caught in the normal form as a trade off for animal shape power, is eliminated.

Once safely in the animal shape, AC in the 50s, HPs around 700, and greatly boosted saving throws allows the totem to avoid further disabling or to merely survive through it, then to create distance from the target, unshift, and set up a counter.

Or, once safely in animal form the totem could just Hellball or Greater Ruin the target from in their shape.

[Tomato Sword]

Using -polymorph repeatedly in battle is an exploit, and I do smite people for it. That said, adding a timeout would not be unreasonable either.

How about a timer respective to the power of the shape, kinda like with Weavemasters and their CDs that scale with spell level?

Lower level totems, I imagine, would need to unshift more often for more practical reasons (such as recasting a buff that doesn't last as long) than higher level ones, which gets a significantly stronger shape, long lasting buffs, higher AC and AB, etc etc.

[Morderon]

And here i was just not liking it because it meant non-path druids got shafted further.

A strong base/spell casting form matters much less given -polymorph works as well as it does.

How about disable -polymorph for non-5% totems and give ALL druids unlimited wildshape feat at level 5 or something.

That way they're bound to the rules every other feat/polymorph ability has.

And consider giving totems +2 to con for every 30 temp hp.. because even before -polymorph became a thing that temp hp was abused. Sure this also means they get a higher fort save, but it's not as if they're failing many fort saves as is given fort save is a high save, the major con boost from shifting, and spellcraft as a class skill.

It's not as if it was intentionally/maliciously done in most cases. It's just a common thing (once infinite wildshape is reached) to unshift after battle and reshift for the next. That potentially means 1000's, though spread out, of free hps during an adventure..

[Scurvy Cur]

I'm leaning more and more towards advocating removing totem druids by the day. The path has so many broken features.

Shrugging off or tanking through existing cc for free is pretty ridiculous. Doubly so because the main drawback of the path is supposed to be that it's super frail in its non-shifted form, which is an irrelevant and completely meaningless drawback when a macro'd command can pop off an instant shift into a non-frail form.

[Griefmaker]

I'm leaning more and more towards advocating removing totem druids by the day. The path has so many broken features.

I would disagree here simply because totem druids have some amazing potential for RP. But as it is now, they are more apt to be taken simply because of the powerful mechanical boons.

I suggested some time ago and still hold to the thought that totem druids can shift into their totem form only, meaning no elemental shape, and no dragonshape. That right there would likely be all the balance necessary, in my mind at least.

I never really thought about the whole additional HP being able to be replenished, but if that is the case, then it does kind of make sense to have it removed too. Totems do get a rather healthy boost in HP from the con bonus that grows with the levels, but I suppose a greater con bonus would not hurt much as long as the HP is temporary and not a boost that can be exploited.

[Jagel]

I don't see the how totems per se are OP. Their wild shape is much tougher than the standard wildshapes but that's it. Save for raven with the whopping wisdom bonus and bat shape with its permanent true seeing the totem boni are nice little perks but at a steep price.

My druid's totem shape at lvl 25 is very strong in the ac (except when flat footed) save and health departments but lackluster when it comes to dmg. With a good roll on bull's strength, damage output is 16-18. Creatures with damage reduction and immunity are a pain to kill. In this respect a vanilla druid with elemental shape is better off. And elementals have nice immunities to boot.

The polymorph command could definitely use cooldown or some such and disabling elemental shape for totems might make sense too but seeing that dragon shape is an epic feat with steep reqs (save for ravens) and with limited uses I don't see the need.

And instead of nerfing totems I'd say give vanilla druids some perks (more animal shapes to choose from, treant shape at epic levels, more spell casting power, rp perks, whatever)

[Lorkas]

More animal shapes for non-totems would be cool, but totem druids as-is definitely need a nerf.

When the animal companion is stronger than many equal-level PCs, and you have a full spellcasting abilities behind that, and you have a shapeshifting ability that gives you STR, CON, DEX, saves, and AC that rivals top-tier builds for any single one of those (while retaining the ability to cast epic spells), the class is without a question overpowered. Pointing out their low damage doesn't really begin to cover all of the abilities that the totem druid has, especially when the animal companion is currently more than capable of making up all of the low damage the PC itself has.

[Flameborn]

More animal shapes for non-totems would be cool, but totem druids as-is definitely need a nerf.

When the animal companion is stronger than many equal-level PCs, and you have a full spellcasting abilities behind that, and you have a shapeshifting ability that gives you STR, CON, DEX, saves, and AC that rivals top-tier builds for any single one of those (while retaining the ability to cast epic spells), the class is without a question overpowered. Pointing out their low damage doesn't really begin to cover all of the abilities that the totem druid has, especially when the animal companion is currently more than capable of making up all of the low damage the PC itself has.

I'd have to say you are very heartily exaggerating, when one of those "top-tier" builds killed my companion in 4 rounds without taking a single hit of damage.

And as one of the only pure druids on the server not cheesing their LN alignment for the +23 ac you get from a few monk levels, I can politely disagree.