Pirates

[Bunny]

Made a new character in the pirate starting town. No one was around and i didn't find much in the adventuring areas. Bought a ship for 1k. Died during a deck fight. Respawned in Cordor. PKed every time i set foot in the city.

What is the trigger for these people to immediately start picking a fight? Names are red? Seems player knowledge.

How do i get back to my boat? Was the only access from the island dock? I understand housing but the crew led me to believe i was traveling to a new city.

Why did i respawn in enemy territory? I had set my respawn point with the surgeon or so i thought.

[DM Axis]

First, the server you log into needs to be Surface when you perish out at sea as that is where all the sea module content is. If you logged into, or crossed realms via the door in the fugue (death area) the default resurrection point would be within Cordor.

Pirates are marked in a way that other players can discern through various skill checks. Depending on a city's outlook on pirates within the city they may regard you as a danger. As pirates are not nice people, one can expect hostilities quite often for a pirate character. It is best to be extremely aware of the PVP rules, and when all else fails a small tell explaining the mix up can go a long way.

The ship that you rented will return once either the servers are reset (whether by crash or normal reset) or after the rental timer expires. The duration is 24 in game hours (x6 real minutes for each hour comes out to a grand total of over two hours). It does not return without someone able to give the command otherwise to the navigator.

Your Surface spawnpoint will be the surgeon, make certain that when you go into the light that you're still on the Surface server.

[JubJub]

I would simply tell folks, I don't know how I got here, I woke up and here I am, can you lead me to the gates or something like that. Most players will understand.

[Bunny]

Tried that. The nice folks i met were just abiding by the server rules before the one shot me a couple times. Character bugged again and i was in some portal room then the middle of a continent i think.

Deleted the char and trying something different now

[Archnon]

There are quick paths out of cordor and back to the cliff but you have to learn them IC. But the obvious answer should be boats. Otherwise I,d make sure you carry a portal Stone and activate the portal on the cliff.

[Infinite Solutions]

If there isn't a warning against starting in Sencliff for new players there should be. You can become a pirate whenever you like and it's better to put off getting the tattoos if you don't know the server yet.

[Bunny]

If there isn't a warning against starting in Sencliff for new players there should be. You can become a pirate whenever you like and it's better to put off getting the tattoos if you don't know the server yet.

No warnings. Had to join to get the contract quests. Would have been nice to understand it was a pvp flag but the real issue was the broken respawn then getting strong armed within seconds under the guise of role play. Beginning characters wouldn't have the notoriety for immediate policing in a new town. What dm allows one player to one shot another on a whim? I recognize its the PW construct but it still left a bad taste.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

If there isn't a warning against starting in Sencliff for new players there should be. You can become a pirate whenever you like and it's better to put off getting the tattoos if you don't know the server yet.

No warnings. Had to join to get the contract quests. Would have been nice to understand it was a pvp flag but the real issue was the broken respawn then getting strong armed within seconds under the guise of role play. Beginning characters wouldn't have the notoriety for immediate policing in a new town. What dm allows one player to one shot another on a whim? I recognize its the PW construct but it still left a bad taste.

Know that this is not representative of the server. You'll unfortunately find trigger-happy players wherever you go. I wouldn't get disillusioned.

You can also report people you think are being jerkfaces. Good RPers should know better, especially with newbie players.

[Subutai]

Know that this is not representative of the server. You'll unfortunately find trigger-happy players wherever you go. I wouldn't get disillusioned.

You can also report people you think are being jerkfaces. Good RPers should know better, especially with newbie players.

There's already a rule that RP is required, absolutely and in all circumstances, before PvP. If anyone PvPed you without any prior RP, they were absolutely breaking a very firm rule.

There are also quite a few players, unfortunately, who would rather abide by the letter of the rule than the spirit, and will do the bare minimum of RP to check off a box (often just one or two lines, and frequently before you can even respond). This kind of thing is often seen to be a violation of the same PvP rule, but otherwise is usually a violation of the general "Be Nice" rule.

Like Seven Sons said, you can (and very much shoulder) report people who are being jerkfaces. From the sound of things, you absolutely experienced some PvP-happy players who shouldn't have PvPed you as quickly as they did.

[Infinite Solutions]

There are a lot of people who think pirates are basically monsters that must be driven out or smited on sight. It's kind of a shame and I think even the most uptight Cordor guards should treat pirate tats as a sign that person should be watched and warned to behave but wait until the pirate actually has a reputation to start busting heads. In general we should give aspiring criminals a chance to commit a crime before shutting down their RP avenues completely.

This is why I think Sencliff should have a warning against new players. There's no real need to start there if you want to play a pirate and it's only beneficial if you know how the server works already.

[HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL]

sorry for killing you

there was no communication from you when I sent you tells

pirate system should be redone entirely imo
atm, it's "go to cordor and grind and come back to get the tats"

[Irongron]

There are a lot of people who think pirates are basically monsters that must be driven out or smited on sight. It's kind of a shame and I think even the most uptight Cordor guards should treat pirate tats as a sign that person should be watched and warned to behave but wait until the pirate actually has a reputation to start busting heads.

I agree, and these are of course only tattoos, and not everyone who gets them is necessarily a member of a dangerous crew. It's akin to biker or gang tattoos in the real world; not everyone who has them is going to be a criminal.

An individual with tattoos may have been in a group some years ago, dwelled in a 'free port' or nation where piracy was the norm. While such markings would certainly hinder any chance of gainful employment in the area of shipping. They can be a sign of class, origin, or admiration (In a world where pirates can become celebrities in the various ports of Faerun), as well as a core part of how such crews operate.

Not everyone with extensive pirate tattoos is a wanted pirate themselves.
But everyone that is that is a wanted pirate has extensive pirate tattoos.

[Cortex]

A lot of pirates didn't do Sencliff any favors by going out of their way to antagonize Cordor in every possible way, so now Cordor and other settlements are extremely jaded over any pirate. Not that it justifies being crappy to someone.

[Reallylongunneededplayername]

Be a good pirate, Join the Cordor guard today.

But Seriously, All have good points here, I myself kinda just " snuck" into Cordor at low lvl got some writs, did them, Snuck back and eventually I got strong enough to Grinds along Sencliff.

Small thing what really bugs me, When you are completely wrapped in cloth, armor, helmet etc. People still see your ink "somehow".

Pirates should get the assassin guild treatment if you ask me.

Bunny! Don't give up on Sencliff~!

[Bunny]

The pking didnt burn me on being a pirate. The situation was a bit more frustrating than id like but i learned a bit about the mechanics.

Definitely would recommend some more info in the creation room as all it says it permanently become a pirate and that wasn't true until i signed the contract?

Also fix that ship respawn.

Ive made a new char and will just get better aquainted with things.

[Irongron]

There's plenty of relatively new dungeons in Sencliff, in addition to quick access to those in Cordor. I'd advise not going out on a ship until you've gained a few levels.

[Reallylongunneededplayername]

There's plenty of relatively new dungeons in Sencliff, in addition to quick access to those in Cordor. I'd advise not going out on a ship until you've gained a few levels.

I would add don't sail alone eighter. Sencliff currently is pretty hard because the low activity (We do our best)
But with what is offered on the cliff itself should actually be enough to get you the levels needed to "spread your wings".

Also "quick access to those in Cordor" It may just me, But due the fact you flip a coin for "succes or pvp, chased out of town" cause you walked in through a certain door and me ALWAYS getting lost in the sewers. There are.. *shifty eyes* better ways. FOIG

[Subutai]

Just as a side note, I'd really like to see more avenues opened up for becoming a notorious pirate. Right now, it all kind of depends on pirates' actions matching their reputation, in the spirit of extremely violent, murderous pirates like Charles Vane. Historically, many extremely well known pirates, like Benjamin Hornigold, Black Sam Bellamy, and even the notorious Blackbeard all had very notable strong dislikes of violence. In particular and most surprising of all, given his reputation, Blackbeard is never recorded as having killed anyone. He tended to either release most of his captives, although I think he sold some into slavery as well.

I've been thinking about making a whole post on this somewhere, but I'm not sure where. Pirate players could definitely take inspiration from this, I think, but it could also be used to expand the system of gaining notoriety as a pirate in ways that might make your character a despicable criminal with a terrifying reputation, but not require them to actually kill countless innocent sailors.

[Arienette]

Wont comment on your specific circumstances since I dont know anything about them.

But generally I think it is a good thing that "normal" people shun and harass pirates when they find them in town.

Same way it is a good thing when they are hostile to goblins, drow, etc when encountered.

Tolerating pirates and other Bad Guys just leads to a watering-down of the setting IMO.

[R0GUE]

Just as a side note, I'd really like to see more avenues opened up for becoming a notorious pirate. Right now, it all kind of depends on pirates' actions matching their reputation, in the spirit of extremely violent, murderous pirates like Charles Vane. Historically, many extremely well known pirates, like Benjamin Hornigold, Black Sam Bellamy, and even the notorious Blackbeard all had very notable strong dislikes of violence. In particular and most surprising of all, given his reputation, Blackbeard is never recorded as having killed anyone. He tended to either release most of his captives, although I think he sold some into slavery as well.

I've been thinking about making a whole post on this somewhere, but I'm not sure where. Pirate players could definitely take inspiration from this, I think, but it could also be used to expand the system of gaining notoriety as a pirate in ways that might make your character a despicable criminal with a terrifying reputation, but not require them to actually kill countless innocent sailors.

A lot of "pirates" were simply smugglers. They didn't engage in any raiding, killing, or even robbery. Their only crime was to smuggle illicit goods through the Spanish armada, which they often did only because they themselves weren't Spanish, and thus weren't legally authorized to do business in Spanish ports. A lot of Dutch ships were classified as pirates in this way.

A lot of other pirates certainly did their fair share of raiding and killing, but they kept their targets constrained to military vessels and the like. These were usually English captains who were given the infamous "letters of marques". They were basically a way for the British and French to harass the Spanish Armada in the Americas, even though their navies weren't as powerful. The Spanish labelled them as pirates but the English and French just thought of them as mercenary ships.

I think there was a whole thread on this once before though, and the consensus seemed to be, regardless of historical realities, this is a fantasy setting, and at the very least being a Sencliffe pirate carries with it a certain reputation that can't be avoided.

Keep in mind that there have been players who roleplayed as "pirates" who weren't marked and didn't belong to Sencliffe. I think this is the preferred method to play a more friendly pirate.

[Subutai]

A lot of "pirates" were simply smugglers. They didn't engage in any raiding, killing, or even robbery. Their only crime was to smuggle illicit goods through the Spanish armada, which they often did only because they themselves weren't Spanish, and thus weren't legally authorized to do business in Spanish ports. A lot of Dutch ships were classified as pirates in this way.

A lot of other pirates certainly did their fair share of raiding and killing, but they kept their targets constrained to military vessels and the like. These were usually English captains who were given the infamous "letters of marques". They were basically a way for the British and French to harass the Spanish Armada in the Americas, even though their navies weren't as powerful. The Spanish labelled them as pirates but the English and French just thought of them as mercenary ships.

I think there was a whole thread on this once before though, and the consensus seemed to be, regardless of historical realities, this is a fantasy setting, and at the very least being a Sencliffe pirate carries with it a certain reputation that can't be avoided.

Keep in mind that there have been players who roleplayed as "pirates" who weren't marked and didn't belong to Sencliffe. I think this is the preferred method to play a more friendly pirate.

There's definitely something to be said about the Golden Age of Piracy being a separate thing. Even pirates who went beyond letters of marque often did so purely because the War of the Spanish Succession ended and England and Spain were at (tentative) peace, but the former privateers continued their now-illegal privateering. Some did expand into preying on English ships once they were being pursued, but were still relatively morally upstanding.

Many also really did live something of the romanticized life of "freedom on the high seas" and took well to living a life free of the strict tenets of normal life, at least for a time.

While I agree that you can easily play a pirate that isn't a Sencliff pirate, I wonder if Sencliff's mandatory, "Do murders, get tattoos, join Sencliff pirates" makes Sencliff in a way not only a little stagnant, in the sense that it's mechanically impossible to really change the island's outlook, but also primes a lot of the PvP-based struggles pirates face. Any tattooed Sencliff pirate is not only reputed to be, but absolutely factually is, a wretched murderer. It's very much an island where a single factional outlook is mechanically enforced as running the island, with no hope of change, which is why I'd love it if there were more options. Your pirate gang might require tattoos and murders, my pirate gang might emphasize not murdering, and going incognito. Both could vie for preeminence on Sencliff without one being mechanically "right".

It'd be great if the tattoos could be replaced with something like a "P" brand. Maybe you don't get a tattoo to show you're a pirate, but if you're caught pirating, you get labeled as such.

[R0GUE]

A lot of "pirates" were simply smugglers. They didn't engage in any raiding, killing, or even robbery. Their only crime was to smuggle illicit goods through the Spanish armada, which they often did only because they themselves weren't Spanish, and thus weren't legally authorized to do business in Spanish ports. A lot of Dutch ships were classified as pirates in this way.

A lot of other pirates certainly did their fair share of raiding and killing, but they kept their targets constrained to military vessels and the like. These were usually English captains who were given the infamous "letters of marques". They were basically a way for the British and French to harass the Spanish Armada in the Americas, even though their navies weren't as powerful. The Spanish labelled them as pirates but the English and French just thought of them as mercenary ships.

I think there was a whole thread on this once before though, and the consensus seemed to be, regardless of historical realities, this is a fantasy setting, and at the very least being a Sencliffe pirate carries with it a certain reputation that can't be avoided.

Keep in mind that there have been players who roleplayed as "pirates" who weren't marked and didn't belong to Sencliffe. I think this is the preferred method to play a more friendly pirate.

There's definitely something to be said about the Golden Age of Piracy being a separate thing. Even pirates who went beyond letters of marque often did so purely because the War of the Spanish Succession ended and England and Spain were at (tentative) peace, but the former privateers continued their now-illegal privateering. Some did expand into preying on English ships once they were being pursued, but were still relatively morally upstanding.

Many also really did live something of the romanticized life of "freedom on the high seas" and took well to living a life free of the strict tenets of normal life, at least for a time.

While I agree that you can easily play a pirate that isn't a Sencliff pirate, I wonder if Sencliff's mandatory, "Do murders, get tattoos, join Sencliff pirates" makes Sencliff in a way not only a little stagnant, in the sense that it's mechanically impossible to really change the island's outlook, but also primes a lot of the PvP-based struggles pirates face. Any tattooed Sencliff pirate is not only reputed to be, but absolutely factually is, a wretched murderer. It's very much an island where a single factional outlook is mechanically enforced as running the island, with no hope of change, which is why I'd love it if there were more options. Your pirate gang might require tattoos and murders, my pirate gang might emphasize not murdering, and going incognito. Both could vie for preeminence on Sencliff without one being mechanically "right".

It'd be great if the tattoos could be replaced with something like a "P" brand. Maybe you don't get a tattoo to show you're a pirate, but if you're caught pirating, you get labeled as such.

Well, my opinion is the more outside the box and imaginative the character the better. So I wholeheartedly agree it would be cool to make the system more nuanced if its possible. When Arelith did that "Pirate Weekend" a few months back, I created a character that I dropped almost immediately, but she was patterned after "Dr. Aphra" (who is a new Star Wars character from the comics) - essentially she is the antithesis of Indiana Jones, a completely selfish archaeologist, interested only in making money and stealing treasures. I still think this would be a fun character to play, but it would require a very different type of pirate system for it to be fun I think. She wouldn't be marked, unless it was against her will like you said above. I would see her more as the "smuggler" type of pirate that I indicated. She would probably run with a very small crew, and they would likely avoid trouble, they just wouldn't be afraid of violence when confronted with it, and she could probably be a little sadistic to her enemies, but otherwise she would leave most people alone.

I guess the question is, does the system need to be revamped, or can you play this style of pirate already by just foregoing the tattoos? I feel like it kind of depends on the culture of Sencliffe. If the Sencliffe pirates have started PKing those without tattoos (they didn't used to) then yeh, a new system is probably needed. Otherwise, it might be possible to work within the current constraints I guess, but to be fair, I haven't tried.

[Bunny]

Just a thought

Make the pvp flag universal and characters would have to discover their enmity rather than relying on a game mechanic in theory

[Infinite Solutions]

I guess the question is, does the system need to be revamped, or can you play this style of pirate already by just foregoing the tattoos? I feel like it kind of depends on the culture of Sencliffe. If the Sencliffe pirates have started PKing those without tattoos (they didn't used to) then yeh, a new system is probably needed. Otherwise, it might be possible to work within the current constraints I guess, but to be fair, I haven't tried.

I made a pirate during the weekend too and was trying to put off getting the tattoos but the Sencliff folks, at least one in particular, wasn't going to let that fly and made it impossible. I dropped the character too, I like the idea of playing a pirate and expect it to bring a fair amount of conflict but there was just so much antagonism from day one I had to bow out. I don't want a character who's only about PVP. Maybe if Sencliff is less active now they'd be more accepting of folks who hang around but put off becoming full-on tattooed pirates or maybe even have other reasons for living there.

If I do the Sencliff thing again I'll probably level to 21 first then go through the RP of finding a crew and getting tats. Maybe becoming a pirate something later in the story and something to build towards rather than starting there.

[Subutai]

I made a pirate during the weekend too and was trying to put off getting the tattoos but the Sencliff folks, at least one in particular, wasn't going to let that fly and made it impossible.

With the way the Sencliff mechanics work, it makes total sense for a character to act that way right now, because Sencliff mechanically enforces certain behavior. It's somewhat akin to if being an Andunorian required you to take and own slaves, or if being a Bendirian required you to worship Brandobaris by mechanical enforcement in order to be involved. It's dictating a fairly specific type of RP, in this case a fairly specific conceptualization of what a pirate does and how a pirate acts, rather than leaving it open to the interpretation of the current government or leading factions.

Sencliff's mechanics essentially say, "An overt, extremely violent and murderous pirate is the only kind allowed on the pirate island. Any other kind of pirate isn't allowed and can't participate". While those kinds of pirates could theoretically find a place and start a little camp out on some distant shore somewhere, they wouldn't have access to any ships but rentable ones, and wouldn't be able to reliably participate really anywhere. Even if 75% of the pirates refused to get the tattoos and join up, that would just mean that 75% of the pirates weren't participating. The 25% would still be the ones in control.