Outcast Pariah

[The Greater Good]

When it says 'surface settlements' does it specifically mean Cordor, Bendir, Guldorand, Brog, and Myon? Or anywhere that's a big chunk of people/living space like Greyhammer, Sibayad, the Grove, etc?

[Irongron]

Settlements as defined by the settlement system (where citizenship is possible).

[Tarkus the dog]

What's the overall reasoning behind these changes?

[The Greater Good]

Is this going to be applied to pirates? They are, for most purposes, also hostile to 'normal' settlements in the same way Outcasts apparently are.

[DM Axis]

This currently does not affect monsters or pirates.

Edit: This will also affect monsters. Not pirates.

[Nymann]

This currently does not affect monsters or pirates.

Why would it not apply to Pirates though? They are at this point even more hostile towards settlements than outcasts and have their own writs as well?

[xanrael]

Unlike the exile system (unless that was rolled back earlier) a Pariah/Outcast isn't going to be mechanically booted out of the settlement unless I misread things.

So an Outcast could mechanically walk into Cordor, perhaps meeting a fence* somewhere clandestine to buy an item indirectly from a shop in Cordor. Of course if the fence is caught and the gov't cares enough they might become a Pariah themselves.

Is this sort of RP fine/encouraged?

*Might not be a 100% accurate term to use but hopefully you understand my meaning.

[DM Axis]

The exile system is a physical barring for players unable to make the appropriate checks.
The pariah system only affects use of NPCs and ships. They can buy things outside of a city.

Could have characters act as go-betweens due to the restrictions now in place, that roleplay is encouraged, much as it already is for those who advocate for exiles.

[RedGiant]

This currently does not affect monsters or pirates.

Edit: This will also affect monsters. Not pirates.

Would be great to also effect "not monsters" in Andunor.

[Ork]

Would be great to also effect "not monsters" in Andunor.

Couldn't help yourself, huh? If something affects the UD it should affect the surface? Nah. Andunor is a trade city for all delicacies and tastes.

[CosmicOrderV]

Would be great to also effect "not monsters" in Andunor.

Couldn't help yourself, huh? If something affects the UD it should affect the surface? Nah. Andunor is a trade city for all delicacies and tastes.

In theory it definitely doesn't seem bad, but as well, it doesn't help the long standing perception that the surface and UD are allotted special treatments, rather than being treated equally.

It's for this same reason that so many "playing human race vs monster race" threads pop up. There's a certain balance between Developer Vision, for what those who have been enabled to offer changes for the server put forward, to how it actually plays out in practice. The spirit of the server is that however it plays out in practice, is how things ought to advance, but that's not really how it usually goes. It also gets a lil convoluted as certain aspects of the server are allowed to change organically, but others are reinforced as "the way it should be" (things like outcasts being barred from Sibiyad, and monster races from Sencliff? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's just "the way it should be" a this present time.) -- only more so convoluted as these standards seem to change arbitrarily over time (Irongron eventually said it was okay for Duergar to visit Cordor? Why? There's no RP to back this up. It's personal preference, with no organic backing.)

At the end of the day, I think more communication could go a long way.

[RedGiant]

Couldn't help yourself, huh? If something affects the UD it should affect the surface? Nah. Andunor is a trade city for all delicacies and tastes.

Very well, withdrawn. Counsel will rephrase. It would be good if the monsters had a settlement where there would be opposite and equal consequences for Harvey the human or Skippy the sun-elf.

[Ork]

Duergar, by and large, aren't considered monsters. That's supported in lore. The hatred a duergar has for a shield dwarf, and vice versa, pales in comparison to the hatred of a drow and a surface elf. Duergars are not monsters, but deep dwarves ..that also happen to be crueler aspects of dwarven psychology.

Andunor, when founded, was first and foremost a trading hub. Two drow houses created the city to allow them to bolster their wealth and conduct their twisted experiments in relative secret. They don't care how the settlement is run as long as trade isn't inhibited. You learn this when approaching the peacekeepers. They literally give 0 viths besides protecting the merchants.

What has happened is fair in that ultimately we can create whatever we want in Andunor as long as what we want doesn't inhibit trade (the one rule of the true masters of Andunor). There doesn't need to be any further understanding than this.

How does that all work for everyone involved? You have two types of philosophies: inclusionist and exclusionist. The inclusionist seeks to work with what we have to create a compelling story that effects all the denizens of Andunor and beyond. The exclusionist want to seal off the city to their specific brand of roleplay. I'll let you decide which ones better.

Honestly there is room for both styles of roleplay as long as we, as players, intend to involve others in that story making process. Can outcasts be regulated to second class citizens? Sure. There are good ways to do that where outcasts are empowered to pursue "fighting the man" type of roleplay. And there is the "bow or die" roleplay that removed player agency.

Ultimately what is allowed in Andunor? Anything. It has cycled from stark order to abject chaos every few months. It's a great setting that molds to the players whims. How we use that is what matters.

[Let Love In]

Funnily, those branded as exclusionist have often rped with me on every character I've made, human or monster. I find people with exclusionist characters are often some of the most inclusive players. It's very important to make the distinction and many who fail to do so are missing out on a great deal.

[Bibliophile]

I've a question and not sure where to post it as there are so many threads currently for this new change. When you exile from a settlement it costs resources. Does setting someone as a Pariah do the same and does it cost as many resources to the city as exile does?

[The GrumpyCat]

Not at the moment no. Though I wouldn't be suprised if this was revisited at the future.

[Bibliophile]

Awesome thanks for the response.

[Hazard]

Couldn't help yourself, huh? If something affects the UD it should affect the surface? Nah. Andunor is a trade city for all delicacies and tastes.

Very well, withdrawn. Counsel will rephrase. It would be good if the monsters had a settlement where there would be opposite and equal consequences for Harvey the human or Skippy the sun-elf.

[RedGiant]

Arelith totally needs this.