Elves are adults at 120, but...

You have questions? We may have answers.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Active DMs

Post Reply
MoreThanThree
Posts: 476
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:06 pm

Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by MoreThanThree » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:58 am

What about Drow? I read once that they age quicker, and die of old age around 300.
20 RPR GANG

User avatar
Kreydis
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:42 am

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by Kreydis » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:06 am

Everything I'm finding online seems to say 110. So basically the same as normal elves, just they're expected to die faster / sooner.

Also a bit weird that in the first link I gave you that they give a chart for aging effects? As far as I'm aware in 3.5 and all of D&D, elves don't have aging effects? But meh, that's a side note.
It's a Dwarf, no it's a Dragon, no it's a Halfling! I think.

Aelryn Bloodmoon
Arelith Supporter
Arelith Supporter
Posts: 2028
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:57 pm

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:18 am

It's important to note that while elves are considered "adults" by their own people at 110, this is not to imply that it takes them that long to reach full physical maturity- it happens much sooner, else a race that is already sparsely fertile would suffer the vulnerability of childhood for over a century, and be extinct within a generation- probably not even a full one, in the case of the drow.

It's kind of like countries where at 18 you're an adult but you can't drink until 21- younger elves are physically grown but still thought of as children due to their inexperience in the world.
Bane's tyranny is known throughout the continent, and his is the image most seen as the face of evil.
-Faiths and Pantheons (c)2002

User avatar
Durvayas
Arelith Supporter
Arelith Supporter
Posts: 2207
Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 6:20 am

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by Durvayas » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:33 am

Drow are sexually mature adults by age 30.
However, they do not mature fully on an emotional level until they hit around a hundred.

This is largely the reason why drow have such a high incidence of mental illness and malignant personality disorders. Their emotionally formative years are a hellscape of pressure, plots, and intrigue.
The longer lived drow tend to stabalize, and it makes them orders of magnitude more dangerous because they are just as evil as before, just better at it.

Drow live just as long as elves.

Quenthel Baenre lived to easily 800.
Gromph Beanre is in his 800s as well.
Plays: Durvayas(deleted), Marco(deleted), Hounynrae(NPC), Sinithra Auvry'ndal(rolled), Rauvlin Barrith(Active), Madeline Clavelle(Shelved)

User avatar
-XXX-
Posts: 2113
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:49 am

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by -XXX- » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:19 am

Durvayas wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:33 am
Drow live just as long as elves.
Technically, the natural life span of the drow is still to be recorded as no drow has died of old age yet :lol:

User avatar
Atlantahammy
Posts: 330
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:37 am

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by Atlantahammy » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:15 am

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:18 am
It's important to note that while elves are considered "adults" by their own people at 110, this is not to imply that it takes them that long to reach full physical maturity- it happens much sooner, else a race that is already sparsely fertile would suffer the vulnerability of childhood for over a century, and be extinct within a generation- probably not even a full one, in the case of the drow.

It's kind of like countries where at 18 you're an adult but you can't drink until 21- younger elves are physically grown but still thought of as children due to their inexperience in the world.
Pretty much this, here is a excerpt from Race's of the wild 3.5 supplement, page 12, under "love" from where this actually comes from, as it's a pretty good reference (and only a reference, since Arelith is it's own thing and not straight 3.5/3.0/2.0):
Image
Last edited by Atlantahammy on Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Memelord
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:05 pm
Location: New Yawk

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by Memelord » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:25 am

Races of the Wild isn't FR-specific. According to Ed Greenwood, elves mature physically at the same rate as humans up until about 18-20ish and then pause there. They don't become fertile/fully sexually mature until after their first century. They don't usually mature emotionally until after their first century, too, but that's a cultural thing - elves raised among humans (or under extreme duress) will mature emotionally far faster, but it tends to lead to psychoses and mental issues later down the line.

Drow live just as long as elves do, but tend to die violent deaths at far earlier ages than elves usually reach. Lolth is well known, however, for unnaturally expanding the lifespans of her favorite pets, and some matron mothers are millennia old.

User avatar
Atlantahammy
Posts: 330
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:37 am

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by Atlantahammy » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:33 am

Memelord wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:25 am
Races of the Wild isn't FR-specific. According to Ed Greenwood, elves mature physically at the same rate as humans up until about 18-20ish and then pause there. They don't become fertile/fully sexually mature until after their first century. They don't usually mature emotionally until after their first century, too, but that's a cultural thing - elves raised among humans (or under extreme duress) will mature emotionally far faster, but it tends to lead to psychoses and mental issues later down the line.

Drow live just as long as elves do, but tend to die violent deaths at far earlier ages than elves usually reach. Lolth is well known, however, for unnaturally expanding the lifespans of her favorite pets, and some matron mothers are millennia old.
No offense dude, but FR-Specific is also out the window in regards to Arelith, sure it uses the setting, but it's not 100% FR. (hence why I updated my post) so implying "not canon" is kinda void here...

Plus by the sounds of it it's.. not even wrong? This seems to be the general, agreed upon consensus, and the expert just gives them a point of reference to work with. If you can give them a FR-specific reference for this though, I'm sure it won't go unappreciated! After all the more references the better.

User avatar
Memelord
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:05 pm
Location: New Yawk

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by Memelord » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:39 pm

Atlantahammy wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:33 am
Memelord wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:25 am
Races of the Wild isn't FR-specific. According to Ed Greenwood, elves mature physically at the same rate as humans up until about 18-20ish and then pause there. They don't become fertile/fully sexually mature until after their first century. They don't usually mature emotionally until after their first century, too, but that's a cultural thing - elves raised among humans (or under extreme duress) will mature emotionally far faster, but it tends to lead to psychoses and mental issues later down the line.

Drow live just as long as elves do, but tend to die violent deaths at far earlier ages than elves usually reach. Lolth is well known, however, for unnaturally expanding the lifespans of her favorite pets, and some matron mothers are millennia old.
No offense dude, but FR-Specific is also out the window in regards to Arelith, sure it uses the setting, but it's not 100% FR. (hence why I updated my post) so implying "not canon" is kinda void here...
On the contrary - unless something is either:

A) FR Canon by 3.5, or
B) Explicitly stated as Arelith-canon by the DMs/Devs

Then players are under absolutely no obligation to recognize it as legitimate or valid. Players don't have to recognize the existence of a whole host of Elven gods because they aren't actually specific to this setting. Players no longer have to recognize the existence of Zarus, because he's not an FR-god and was removed from the Arelith setting. Players used to not have to recognize the existence of Dallah Thuan, because she's not an FR god, and I genuinely wish she'd just be removed from the deity book as well because she can't actually exist with the setting's theological rules and she contributes nothing to the pantheon that isn't already covered by another deity with either more history or in a more interesting capacity.

Saying "canon doesn't matter" is what gets us half-celestial winged drow lesbian transvestites having tea with Paladins of Tyr on the side of the road in Cordor. It is extremely important that there's a baseline of canon lore/knowledge that everyone can work from in order to create a logically and thematically consistent (and more interesting) story and setting.

User avatar
Durvayas
Arelith Supporter
Arelith Supporter
Posts: 2207
Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 6:20 am

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by Durvayas » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:17 pm

Memelord wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:25 am
Races of the Wild isn't FR-specific. According to Ed Greenwood, elves mature physically at the same rate as humans up until about 18-20ish and then pause there. They don't become fertile/fully sexually mature until after their first century. They don't usually mature emotionally until after their first century, too, but that's a cultural thing - elves raised among humans (or under extreme duress) will mature emotionally far faster, but it tends to lead to psychoses and mental issues later down the line.

Drow live just as long as elves do, but tend to die violent deaths at far earlier ages than elves usually reach. Lolth is well known, however, for unnaturally expanding the lifespans of her favorite pets, and some matron mothers are millennia old.
For the former, its worth noting that Nisstyre, leader of the black dragon company of vhaerunites, wanted to take Liriel Beanre as a breeding slave while she was at the tender age of 49. I strongly doubt he would have kept her prisoner for 51 years just so she could squat out more drow. Its also worth noting that due to the absurd attrition rate for drow, their fertility easily rivals that of humans, and matrons of all ages breed when it is safe to do so, so all evidence points to drow being fertile at LEAST in their 30s.

For the latter. I'd like a citation for the claim that some matrons are millenia old.
There is evidence of ONE matron living over a thousand, and that is Yvonnel "The eternal" Baenre(who lived to 2043). She is the founding mother of house Baenre, which is easily the most powerful of the drow houses in the underdark, fielding forces of several thousand. There are no houses that can be considered their rivals. I've seen no evidence of any kind suggesting Yvonnel had any peers.

The oldest elves in FR that I've been able to research cap out at about 1500. The oldest being of elvish lineage is Sarya Dlardrageth(a fey'ri), at over 5000, but she was put in statis since the crown wars.
The next oldest elf is Srinshee, who was over a thousand (unspecified, but she's been alive since the crown wars) before she became a baelnorn. She is over lvl 46, and is easily the strongest wizard in the entirety of the forgotten realms.
Plays: Durvayas(deleted), Marco(deleted), Hounynrae(NPC), Sinithra Auvry'ndal(rolled), Rauvlin Barrith(Active), Madeline Clavelle(Shelved)

User avatar
Memelord
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:05 pm
Location: New Yawk

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by Memelord » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:14 pm

FOR2 "Drow of the Underdark", pg 14:

"In a Lolth-worshiping drow community, it is a deadly thing to slay a matron mother who holds Lolth's favor, so mothers may reign for hundreds and even thousands of years, kept alive by the magic of Lolth and the diligent service they perform to get and keep it."

FOR2 "Drow of the Underdark", pg 17-18:

"Drow rarely live past their 7th century, 94% of them die of natural causes before age 800. Rare individuals (usually those who are subjected to the least hardship, such as the matron mothers of powerful houses) may live more than a thousand years, becoming withered and worn. Drow do not show signs of aging until after their six hundredth year."

It's worth noting that "natural causes" for a drow dying includes cannibalism - Drow rarely have the room needed to send out expeditions to found new settlements and outposts (suitable building locations for forming self sufficient civilizations in the UD are in high demand, and can rarely be found without provoking open warfare) so populations regularly swell and need to be quelled. The drow do this by butchering and eating the non-noble elderly drow.

three wolf moon
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:59 am

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by three wolf moon » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:02 pm

Durvayas wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:17 pm


For the former, its worth noting that Nisstyre, leader of the black dragon company of vhaerunites, wanted to take Liriel Beanre as a breeding slave while she was at the tender age of 49. I strongly doubt he would have kept her prisoner for 51 years just so she could squat out more drow. Its also worth noting that due to the absurd attrition rate for drow, their fertility easily rivals that of humans, and matrons of all ages breed when it is safe to do so, so all evidence points to drow being fertile at LEAST in their 30s.
It is entirely possible that he just.. didn't know how old she was by looking at her, considering an elf remains agelessly beautiful from physical maturity until ripe old age.

User avatar
Mr_Rieper
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:01 am

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by Mr_Rieper » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:31 pm

Replace "adult" with "considered mature enough to be parents by elven society" and it makes a lot more sense. Other elves would want parents to be ready and understand the responsibility. As Atlantahammy said, old enough to get married and start families.

Drow? Responsible? Caring about raising children? Pff.

They live fast and die young, by elven standards. Even by human standards, in some cases.
CosmicOrderV wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:55 pm
Be the change you want to see, and shape the server because of it. Players can absolutely help keep their fellow players accountable.

User avatar
Rockstar1984
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:21 am
Location: RL Guldorand

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by Rockstar1984 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:46 pm

Memelord wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:39 pm
Saying "canon doesn't matter" is what gets us half-celestial winged drow lesbian transvestites having tea with Paladins of Tyr on the side of the road in Cordor. It is extremely important that there's a baseline of canon lore/knowledge that everyone can work from in order to create a logically and thematically consistent (and more interesting) story and setting.
I mostly agree with your point, but the use of the word "transvestite" is rather outdated and considered derogatory. It's also rather offensive to point out LGBTQ+ identity as part of the problem.

Oh the year was 1778...


JubJub
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by JubJub » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:26 pm

Its not that drow can't live as long as an elf, its just rare for a drow to reach that age. Your chances of surviving 800 + years of assassinations, warfare, disease etc is slim. I think it was the 3.5 drow of the underdark manual that mentioned a drow gettimg withered and dying of old age is actually considered an embarrassment and shame for a drow house.

I think it was mentioned somewhere that an elf who is 120 is considered what an 18 year old would be in a human society. They are considered mature enough to venture off alone, etc...

MoreThanThree
Posts: 476
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:06 pm

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by MoreThanThree » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:04 pm

At what age did that test thing at level 4 normally happen?
20 RPR GANG

User avatar
Durvayas
Arelith Supporter
Arelith Supporter
Posts: 2207
Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 6:20 am

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by Durvayas » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:38 am

JubJub wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:26 pm
Its not that drow can't live as long as an elf, its just rare for a drow to reach that age. Your chances of surviving 800 + years of assassinations, warfare, disease etc is slim. I think it was the 3.5 drow of the underdark manual that mentioned a drow gettimg withered and dying of old age is actually considered an embarrassment and shame for a drow house.

I think it was mentioned somewhere that an elf who is 120 is considered what an 18 year old would be in a human society. They are considered mature enough to venture off alone, etc...
Which is odd, because most of the lore I've read suggests that a drow that actually lasts long enough to be considered an elder is both deeply respected and also someone everyone is deeply wary of because it demonstrates a high degree of skill and cunning.

As the old adage goes: "Beware an old man in a proffession where most men die young."
Plays: Durvayas(deleted), Marco(deleted), Hounynrae(NPC), Sinithra Auvry'ndal(rolled), Rauvlin Barrith(Active), Madeline Clavelle(Shelved)

User avatar
The Kriv
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 579
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:44 am

Re: Elves are adults at 120, but...

Post by The Kriv » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:45 am

JubJub wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:26 pm
I think it was mentioned somewhere that an elf who is 120 is considered what an 18 year old would be in a human society. They are considered mature enough to venture off alone, etc...
/disagree

it is not a straight comparison. Elves of 120 are not equivalent to an 18 year old in Human society, because elves consider maturity to be at a different level. In elven society, a 'young elf" may spend 20 years studying nothing but music. then another 20 years studying nothing but philosophy. then another 20 years studying nothing but combat. The "maturity" thing is by elven standards.

An elf at 18 years old, is absolutely the physical and mental equivalent of a, 18 year old human. But by the standards "adult elf" that 18-year-old has not 'matured' enough in life experience and has not been properly educated "by elven standards" and thus still considered adolescent.

An elf of 90 years old won't make the foolish decisions of a human of 17. But, that 90-year-old elf will not have experienced life of a 90-year-old human because that elf would have been sequestered for much of his/her life dedicated to various academic, musical, artistic and/or military pursuits. Does that make him/her an adolescent by Human standards? Heck no. That 90-year-old elf has probably had the life-experience of a 30 or 40 year old human. But is that considered "Mature" by elven standards? Heck no!
-Unit of beauty required to launch one ship = 1 milihelen

Post Reply