cookie cutter sorcerer builds and epic mage armor.

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Seekeepeek
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cookie cutter sorcerer builds and epic mage armor.

Post by Seekeepeek » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:24 pm

why does none of these builds have epic mage armor? it's rather strange. :?

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?res ... mPg1PKR1Ec

unless they was intended for true flame.. i can't see no reason to not take epic mage armor....

nevermind.. none work for true flame..

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Re: cookie cutter sorcerer builds and epic mage armor.

Post by Shadowy Reality » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:39 pm

It is not worth the feat.

10 Base
1 Boots
6 Tumble
1 Mage Armor
20 Epic Mage Armor

Thats 38 AC, which is pretty much terrible. Any decent meleer will have roughly +48ab, +33 on the last attack, more if 2h.

Halibutthead
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Re: cookie cutter sorcerer builds and epic mage armor.

Post by Halibutthead » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:53 pm

yeah, with how 3.25(heh) scales everything, there's almost never a reason to get something you're not built for. like shadow reality points out, +20 AC isn't great when you're adding it your already garbage sorc AC, unless you plan on picking on lowbies.

the same goes for certain skills like stealth: if you're not dex based, it's probably not worth it, in general. i can say by experience that having even +40 will have a surprising number of people walking straight up to you and saying things like "is this your attempt at being sneaky?"

i wonder if it would be worth it to curate a list of "minimum viable" bonuses to help newer players decide what is a good amount of AC, skills, and stats are in a build (AC under 50 is unviable for melee; +15 UMD is all you'll ever need unless you're equipping the racial crafting weapons/armor, for example)

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Dr. B
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Re: cookie cutter sorcerer builds and epic mage armor.

Post by Dr. B » Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:21 pm

The paladin dip takes EMA.

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Re: cookie cutter sorcerer builds and epic mage armor.

Post by The Kriv » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:18 pm

Halibutthead wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:53 pm
i wonder if it would be worth it to curate a list of "minimum viable" bonuses to help newer players decide what is a good amount of AC, skills, and stats are in a build (AC under 50 is unviable for melee; +15 UMD is all you'll ever need unless you're equipping the racial crafting weapons/armor, for example)
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Aodh Lazuli
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Re: cookie cutter sorcerer builds and epic mage armor.

Post by Aodh Lazuli » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:54 pm

Halibutthead wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:53 pm
i wonder if it would be worth it to curate a list of "minimum viable" bonuses to help newer players decide what is a good amount of AC, skills, and stats are in a build (AC under 50 is unviable for melee... for example)
There are a lot of viable melee builds with sub-50 AC. Most twohanded barbs, for example.
Shadowy Reality wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:39 pm
Any decent meleer will have roughly +48ab
There are plenty of viable (good, even) melee builds with less than 48 AB. The dex weaponmaster, for example.

These comments are probably not particularly helpful to the community as a whole.
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Re: cookie cutter sorcerer builds and epic mage armor.

Post by liver and bones » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:08 pm

Aodh Lazuli wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:54 pm
Halibutthead wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:53 pm
i wonder if it would be worth it to curate a list of "minimum viable" bonuses to help newer players decide what is a good amount of AC, skills, and stats are in a build (AC under 50 is unviable for melee... for example)
There are a lot of viable melee builds with sub-50 AC
Shadowy Reality wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:39 pm
Any decent meleer will have roughly +48ab
There are plenty of viable (good, even) melee builds with less than 48 AB.

These comments are probably not particularly helpful to the community as a whole.
Ditto this.

If it's a straight melee build without any other things to rely on, then yes an AB 47 or lower is terrible. However, multiple other builds have certain things going for them, like BG summons, paladin holy sword, bardadin's curse and bard song, etc.


OP: EMA is awful, unless you go the pally/BG dip someone suggested. Then you also pick up divine shield. Your inherent massive CHA stat will help supplement your AC. It goes from 38 to about 48~49 - depending on your race. Now, this AC is only useful in PvE, however. As mentioned, most melee builds have 47+ AB, so they'll have a near 100% hit chance on you even with EMA and divine shield. My recommendation? Focus on what you do best - crowd control and damage.

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Re: cookie cutter sorcerer builds and epic mage armor.

Post by Seekeepeek » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:17 pm

ah. no wonder my sorcerers always been terrible. lol

thanks for the insight!

Cerk Evermoore
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Re: cookie cutter sorcerer builds and epic mage armor.

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:01 pm

I've heard of some sorcerers getting massive amounts of AC using blackguard/paladin dip + Still spell + EMA. However I havn't done any math.

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Re: cookie cutter sorcerer builds and epic mage armor.

Post by Tarkus the dog » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:53 pm

I don't think you should underestimate the difference between having some AC and no AC at all. That said the only currently 'optimal' ( jesus this word has ten different meanings on arelith ) sorc build that I know of is the one with the divine shield, but I'm pretty sure there are other versions. You could also argue that true flamers are optimal because if you run into one that has a support in his party you are mega screwed.

Not that I know why would anyone want to bother with a sorcerer with all the prancing crit immune 67 AC wizards running around at the moment but what do I know. And don't forget the wild mages. Who's idea was that?

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Re: cookie cutter sorcerer builds and epic mage armor.

Post by Mattamue » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:20 am

Sorc/pala cookie:

10, +4 green chain base, +4 green chain dex, +3 tumble, +1 boots, +20 EMA(5 -- armor, deflection, dodge, natural), +14 divine shield

56 AC

Don't need the 1 bump from mage armor because dodge maxed out (5 EMA, 14 divine, 1 boots). Or, get dex boots and use mage armor instead since you'll have to stat a lot of cha and dex to get max divine shield and chain dex ac.

Throw an adamantine tower shield on for +6 more if you aren't casting... +2 more if you have a magic vestment buddy.

Who is the audience for this post?


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Re: cookie cutter sorcerer builds and epic mage armor.

Post by Halibutthead » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:15 pm

Aodh Lazuli wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:54 pm
There are a lot of viable melee builds with sub-50 AC. Most twohanded barbs, for example.
ok, that was a nonspecific example

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Re: cookie cutter sorcerer builds and epic mage armor.

Post by Skibbles » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:22 am

I feel like EMA is less about surviving in drawn out melee with a 30 20/7/3 and more about dealing with possibly many summons, lower level characters, and potentially bringing down critical hits with a low threat roll to a standard hit which seems vital.

I don't pvp all that much but I've noticed a distinct change in survivability with EMA and haste and cats grace over nothing at all.
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