Why are rugs no longer craftable?

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Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by Diilicious » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:00 am

I dont know if this is a bug or not, i really hope it is.

I cant find any of the craftable rugs anymore. its no wonder the one I had that just happened to be a "public" space was immediately stolen.
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by MineTurtle » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:44 am

If I remember properly the staff felt that the rug fixtures were being used somewhat excessively, including in places someone wouldn't put a rug, and they're also 'Giant' placeables which can impact quality of life as they're always screaming 'CLICK ME', and make it hard to walk on things.

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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by Diilicious » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:07 pm

so people can just navigate with the W A S D keys?? its like rugs were a new invention or something. who navigates by clicking on the ground inside buildings? click on the ground ahead of you when walking long distances so you can move and type at the same time.

If they were being put in places they dont belong then those instances need addressing on a case by case basis. its not a quality of life fix to have ALL rugs just blanket removed from the game and being made to look at the same unbroken drab repeating tile textures absolutely everywhere. its the reverse of a quailty of life fix,

This is really unfair honestly
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by TimeAdept » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:16 pm

It's not navigation, it's interaction with the game world, because the highlight footprint of the rugs is so much larger than any other placeable in the game, it affects your ability to click and interact with things.

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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by Fionn » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:47 pm

As implemented, I hated rugs. If they could be redone as non-interactive, using the -fixture commands I could see bringing them back, but there's about every scripting todo item I'd prioritize over rugs.
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by naturaly » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:04 pm

Please remove the market stall covers too, for the same reasons.

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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by MineTurtle » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:16 pm

Diilicious wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:07 pm
so people can just navigate with the W A S D keys?? its like rugs were a new invention or something. who navigates by clicking on the ground inside buildings? click on the ground ahead of you when walking long distances so you can move and type at the same time.

If they were being put in places they dont belong then those instances need addressing on a case by case basis. its not a quality of life fix to have ALL rugs just blanket removed from the game and being made to look at the same unbroken drab repeating tile textures absolutely everywhere. its the reverse of a quailty of life fix,

This is really unfair honestly
I'm given to understand this choice was made a loooonnnggg time ago, rather than recently. Obviously I don't speak for the Dev team, but if you have issue with it I'd suggest a PM to Spyre?

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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by The GrumpyCat » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:53 pm

Yeah the choice was made uh.... I'd say within a year maybe? But certainly more than three or four months ago. Hard to give an exact date TBH. The decision didn't really rest with us, but rather the Devs. Rugs were deemed a pain, so they were removed. I personally kind of miss them too, but I respect the decision of the Dev team so eh.
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by Diilicious » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:18 pm

So you hated them, thats fine.. its okay not to like things.. you have the freedom of simply going some place else, like "well met friend, sorry i cant stay here... because you own too many... rugs "

you also have the freedom of using the W A S D keys to move around which for indoor areas is simply just common sense. and so what if you open the chat box with the rug, you just press escape and its gone again.. problem solved.

taking away the entire premise of decorative floor coverings from the entire game is a terrible none solution to a few peoples inability to master the controls of this 15 year old game. the interiors of all of the tilesets besides the one which nobody has Castle 1 i think, are literally terrible, and have to have rugs on them to break up the drab awful repeating textures and give them some actual life and personality.

The time at which this was made a choice is irrelavent, not everyone needs to make rugs every day and its not a thing that anyone would think "gee i best make loads of these so that when they remove them from the game i can still decorate my place".

Now the remaining rugs have to be guarded like they are made of solid diamond, not only that my character just... cant remember how to make them anymore... yep just forgot, despite having made at least a hundred of various different kinds throughout their life.
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by The Rambling Midget » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:19 am

I feel like you're getting a little too worked up over this.

We lost rectangular altars for an equally unsatisfying, but understandable reason. These things happen. It's just part of playing in a shared world under constant development.
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by Diilicious » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:47 am

I am getting worked up over this but only because a few people out of the thousands of people that play are incapable of moving around the game without picking up things they shouldnt. So instead of them learning how to not do that everyone else is left without, the personal preference of a tiny sliver of people has left everybody else with no recourse...

I spend a lot of my time doing role play in indoor areas, rugs just should not be blanket removed from the game because some people dislike them. I challenge you to make any indoor area look like somebody truely lives there without using a rug on the ground, they insulate homes (something which the time period desperately needed), they look pretty and show off wealth, they break up the monotone of the geneneral surroundings.

Rectangular Altars were removed yes, people were building walls out of them, there is a huge text wall when you rename any item about not doing this that is clearly from back then. the difference is ALL altars werent removed from the game in their entirety because of that right? we still have 2 kinds of altar we can use.. 3 now with the bone altar being added in.

And believe me I would have been just as annoyed back then too for this, the team seem to be allowing the smallest amount of people to just affect everybody rather than smacking them with a rolled up news paper.

Are people dropping rugs in PVP to screw up your aim and mask their hitbox? I cant see how rugs can be abused. Its so annoying simply because of its absurdity. its like old cordor law of banning mimes any mime would be punished by on the spot death, what a weird and totally superflous thing to ban.
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by Mithreas » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:20 am

I'm sorry that you didn't get the mime joke.

Arelith has hundreds of active players and a few thousand total. I'm always wary when I see people make grand sweeping generalisations along the lines of "a tiny sliver of people". How do you know? Really? When I was running the place it was sometimes hard to find out how widespread problems were, and that was with access to a lot more information than the playerbase.

But some life advice, that's much bigger than Arelith. Things like this only have the power over your emotions that you let them. If you're getting worked up over this, then you can choose not to. That's probably a healthier choice.
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by Diilicious » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:11 am

Yes I get that the mime thing might have been a reference to something else, but back then it was legally allowed in cordor to just murder any mime that you saw.

Also that is the exact advice I would give to the people that complained about rugs honestly, you can chose not to get annoyed at them and go to somewhere else.

The people who put rugs down in their own homes did so because they wanted to have a rug there or they wouldnt have put a rug in their home if they didnt want it.

This removal of rugs is like somebody else coming into your home and going "nah dont like the wall paper", and all of your friends agree that your taste in wallpaper is bad therefore they call in decorators on your behalf to remove the wallpaper you liked, wanted, and spent time and or money to have put up because some people didnt like it. even if it was 99% of your friend base that hated your wall paper. infact this is more like all your friends dont like your wall paper, then everybody on your street comes over, people you've never seen before more than a passing glance also decide "nope dont like your wallpaper" if you like it and they dont they dont have to live there so they can toddle off to somewhere where your wallpaper isnt.

These people that dont like rugs had the choice to go to somewhere else. The people that liked the rugs have no choice to do anything else, they had 2 options. I now have only one.

I know because ive played for just shy of two and a half years and never heard a single complaint about rugs, not in my home, not in anyone elses home, ive never seen anyone accidentally pick up a rug because you can cancel the window before the option to do so even appears... its a none issue... ive seen people pick up sofa's and chairs accidentally when they actually MEAN to sit on them, which if you've spent hours perfectly aligning and arranging your furniture can be extremely annoying, thats it, we're banning sofa's...

If somebody literally used all 60 fixture slots of a dungeon somewhere to layer the floor space in rugs, yes thats stupid and needs addressing, 100% agree. but that issue alone needs adressing individually, is the answer really to look at that and say "well, the only option is to just remove rugs entirely from the game"
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:27 am

At the end of the day, the Devs made a decision based on their aestetic tastes and concern over usability of the system, the place of rugs ect. If you dissagree that's absolutly fine. What I'd do next then is place a topic up in the Suggestion forum asking for the return of rug fixtures. I suggest that you take time to take a breath, and make up a list of cool, logical arguments about what such fixtures can bring to the server, and why (as you've said above) the harm they do is minimal.
Then it's all in the hands of the Devs. If they bring rugs back? Great. If not? Then let it go and continue. It's a shame, but not game breaking in the over all scheme of things.
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by Dragonfyre » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:52 pm

I, too, was a bit miffed to learn that all of the rug options (sans bear skin rugs) were removed from the crafting matrix a while back. It's not just that they were removed, though; it was that they were removed seemingly without player input, and without announcement. There wasn't a discussion thread about whether they should be removed or not, nor even so much as a blurb in the Updates thread when they were removed. It happened in a "silent update" manner, and those of us who spent a good deal of time crating rugs and coming up with unique descriptions for them were just suddenly left not only without the ability to make them anymore, but also with no plausible IC reason to explain away our characters' sudden inability to do so.

To add to that, the rugs that are still remaining on the server? If they're destroyed, there's no way to repair them. The Logjam in Guldorand had a "warming rug" in it for the longest time. A few days after this "silent update", it was bashed. My character would have repaired it and put it back in its place, had she not inexplicably "forgotten" how to do so. And that's just one example.

Back when her life was based in Cordor (for the most part), my character was becoming known for her "interior decorator" services, and the rugs she made to go along with the furnishings she sold were a large part of that. They helped bring the overall look and feel of her area designs together, as well as provide an overall warmer feel to the interior tilesets of the buildings she worked in. In larger rooms without walls to divide up space, they helped to create the feel of distinct areas within a much larger space that simply isn't possible with just chairs and couches alone.

All of that just going poof suddenly impacted my RP (and my character's business dealings) detrimentally, with no explanation at all IC or OOC at the time - which I would say was far more damaging than simply having the ability to make and place rugs in the first place.
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by Revelations » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:21 pm

I honestly dislike rug (actually, all bottom placeable) fixtures, due to aesthetics and character movement issues. No, wasd is not satisfactory in most situations. It’s not precise, not flexible enough. Especially in narrow places such as indoor areas. Being as precise with wasd as with mouse movement sometimes means you have to “park drive” your character. Which simply looks silly and, to me, is detrimental to immersion. I know I’m not the only one who feels this way, too.

Also, come on.

It’s a rug.

Like how much RP other than “My place looks subjectively pretty” is a rug going to create that you can’t do with another fixture.

I’m happy to see fewer of them. Then again I managed when they were around so I don’t care much.
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by Miaou » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:29 pm

I personally dislike rugs. They are generally an issue to navigate around. It's also so minor I'm not terribly bothered either way.

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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by O-H41 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:49 pm

I agree with Dragonfyre. I miss rugs, and was disappointed by their sudden disappearance from the crafting menu. Ritual circles cover the same area of effect, but they are still craftable.
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by A Broken Hallelujah » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:39 pm

Diilicious wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:11 am
I know because ive played for just shy of two and a half years and never heard a single complaint about rugs, not in my home, not in anyone elses home, ive never seen anyone accidentally pick up a rug because you can cancel the window before the option to do so even appears... its a none issue... ive seen people pick up sofa's and chairs accidentally when they actually MEAN to sit on them, which if you've spent hours perfectly aligning and arranging your furniture can be extremely annoying, thats it, we're banning sofa's..
When I played in the UD and made frequent trips to the Erudite Arcanum to sell my scrolls, I always without fail would click on the rug in the small hallway. I once accidentally picked it up (and put it down with no issue). But it was always extremely annoying to have to swap to WASD movement as a player who primarily uses shift-click for walking.

I never openly complained about it, as I imagine many other people didn't, because it just wasn't worth getting that upset and enraged over. In short, I just thought they were a minor inconvenience. And personally, I didn't even realize that they were gone - which, I suppose says a lot about just how much I really cared about them.

I can understand why people would like them, considering I'm fond of interior decorating myself, but (much like pillow spam) they're a bit of a detriment to 60 fixture limit shared spaces considering many people like to use multiple rugs throughout their quarters.

If there was an option to make them un-clickable, or just to make rooms with those aesthetic rugs already built in, I'd be all for it. But for now, I'm relieved that there's one less thing to accidentally pick up.

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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by Tomato » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:50 am

Why not make them not glowy, and just pick them up with -pickup_fixture?

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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by Durvayas » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:43 pm

Tomato wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:50 am
Why not make them not glowy, and just pick them up with -pickup_fixture?
Because making them non-interactable means that they can't have descriptions, which largely renders the purpose moot.

I remember the hidden drow temple had large rugs back in the day, which yes, were a pain to navigate, but they were pretty well described. Well enough when my character vandalized the temple one time I could not bring myself to bash them, and re-named them instead to preserve the desc.

If only there were a way to make the interactable bit smalle-......

Just had an idea. Would it be possible to make rug placeables have a small 'location' interactable above( them similar to how fountains are clickable), that would hold the item's name and description? This would let the rug itself be walked on without needing to be clicked.
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by Cybernet21 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:37 am

I have always walked with WASD except when i had to walk and type. Never had trouble around rugs,and WASD doesn't feel all that unnatural.

I'm more neutral on this matter,but this is an RP focused server so if some people have fun and interesting RP around it i say it's fine to let them in,even if it might produce minor navigation problems for some,as long as they aren't everywhere.But in the end the devs might kniw what they are doing
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Re: Why are rugs no longer craftable?

Post by Nitro » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:01 am

I'm glad they're gone. Couldn't go two transitions without stupid outdoor rugs being used to represent some leaf carpet or other tomfoolery, and in inside areas they forced you to forgo mouse navigation because someone felt a need to put a rug in every room.

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