Enhanced Edition: The Bad

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QuestionGuy
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Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by QuestionGuy » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:50 pm

In light of this post I thought I would make two threads about the good and the bad of Enhanced Edition. It can be intimidating to untangle all of that (and similar posts) for someone who isn't used to Arelith's current environment, and may help people decide if it's worth the investment.

This thread should only be able the bad and detrimental aspects of Enhanced Edition. If there's something negative about it, please see the sister thread. Ideally, I'd like this to be pinned like my other similarly themed thread.
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Wytchee
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Wytchee » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:33 pm

Literally cannot play in/around Burrowhome. My FPS drops to single digits. Same with the Fugue, or anywhere there's ample fog.

If a large party appears fully buffed with elemental wards it's almost a guaranteed CTD.
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Rwby
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Rwby » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:50 pm

Sometimes I crash when 95% through loading areas in Cordor. Occasionally I crash if I alt tab for too long. I'm not a fan of the doorways update, sometimes it makes clicking on enemies without shutting the door really hard!

Tourmaline
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Tourmaline » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:27 am

I kind of think there should be a way for us to streamline bug reports from Arelith to Beamdog. The only way issues are going to get fixed is if they're reported to them, and maybe they would take notice if they came in batches from the community of the biggest PW. As opposed to us just complaining here, which probably isn't seen, or filing reports through their site one by one.

Black Wendigo
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Black Wendigo » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:53 am

Transitioning between servers causes me to be dumped out of the server with a false message saying my char is invalid. I have to log back in on the same char and it puts me right where I'm supposed to be after transitioning. This happens on every single char I play no matter which server IM on or which one Im transitioning to.

This has been a known but for months.

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Hunter548
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Hunter548 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:25 am

Frequent crashes, or loss of connection to servers (Non-intel related). Nonsensical beamdog changes (Your inventory exploding and spilling stuff all over the floor when it's full and you pick something up, for example), various graphical weirdness, non-interaction transparent chat windows, framerate drops through the floor when in certain areas or with large amounts of visual effects.
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Hannibal
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Hannibal » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:59 am

my shoulderpads disappear when i re-equip armor

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Cortex
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Cortex » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:05 am

Cordor areas are super unstable for me, getting massive load screens that sometimes end up in a crash.
:)

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Peppermint
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Peppermint » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:41 am

Yikes. Where do I begin?

- Much longer load times.
- Loading screen flickers.
- Lower framerates and occasional frame drops or stutters on top tier hardware. Especially around spells and weather effects.
- Buggy lighting. Entire tiles are often jarringly highlighted in an off-color.
- Display issues at 1080+ resolutions. The right side of the screen is not shaded properly by lightning etc.
- Fewer in game options. No more gamma, fewer sound tuning options.
- All account names now merged into a single vault--whether you want it that way or not.
- Bizarre balancing adjustments. Uncanny Dodge now blocks sneak attack (thereby nerfing rogues, which are already one of the weakest classes.) Assassin Death attack procs less often (thereby nerfing assassins--already one of the weakest classes.) Stunning fist duration reduced (rendering unarmed monks virtually useless.)
- Lots of new bugs (and we keep getting new ones each patch!) Shoulder pads often disappear or don't display at all. Enemies in Greater Sanctuary are now visible and can be AoO'd, unless you have True Seeing, in which case they mysteriously disappear (???). Sound sometimes plays erroneously. Probably more stuff I'm blissfully unaware of or have forgotten.
- Radial menu feels less responsive/accurate. (I might be imagining this?)
- Huge new exploits possible on the supposedly 'more secure' platform. I won't disclose them here.
- No longer possible to copy-paste lengthy macros, making things such as descriptions and in game letters an absolute pain.
- Borked pathfinding.
- Awful inventory management adjustments, which now result in you spilling important possessions onto the ground if you've a full inventory (rather than being unable to pick up new ones, as was the case before).

From a development perspective:

- Loss of oodles of NwNX functionality, which takes us as many steps back as we've moved forward. Many things (e.g. -disguise) remain broken or impossible to do for the average developer.
- NwNCX is straight up no longer a usable platform. (Which sucks, because it's exciting; e.g. most of Sinfar's custom functionality came from this.)
- Models occasionally just don't display in the toolset anymore. Randomly. Because reasons.
- Lots and lots of toolset crashes.
- ScriptDebugger() no longer functions.
Last edited by Peppermint on Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:39 am, edited 3 times in total.

PinataPlethora
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by PinataPlethora » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:14 am

No copy-paste line breaks. :cry:

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Jagel
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Jagel » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:45 am

Peppermint wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:41 am

- Bizarre balancing adjustments. Uncanny Dodge now blocks sneak attack (thereby nerfing rogues, which are already one of the weakest classes.) Assassin Death attack procs less often (thereby nerfing assassins--already one of the weakest classes.) Stunning fist duration reduced (rendering unarmed monks virtually useless.)
Really ? Any char with uncanny dodge is now immune to sneaks? What the fizzassle :shock:

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Dr. B
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Dr. B » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:04 pm

Peppermint wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:41 am
Uncanny Dodge now blocks sneak attack
This is horrible.

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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Shadowy Reality » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:45 pm

Dr. B wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:04 pm
Peppermint wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:41 am
Uncanny Dodge now blocks sneak attack
This is horrible.
I vaguely remember reading this change, I think it checks levels. Higher level rogue can sneak a lower level one, but not the other way around.

Madukthedoppelganger
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Madukthedoppelganger » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:46 pm

Jagel wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:45 am
Peppermint wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:41 am

- Bizarre balancing adjustments. Uncanny Dodge now blocks sneak attack (thereby nerfing rogues, which are already one of the weakest classes.) Assassin Death attack procs less often (thereby nerfing assassins--already one of the weakest classes.) Stunning fist duration reduced (rendering unarmed monks virtually useless.)
Really ? Any char with uncanny dodge is now immune to sneaks? What the fizzassle :shock:
The precise quote from the Launch patch notes is "Fix to Uncanny Dodge 2 feat (higher-level rogues are now allowed to attack lesser rogues with Sneak/Death attacks)."
I couldn't find anything more specific than that with a quick search, but it seems based on the way the feat works in PnP and/or NWN2.

The way it apparently works in Neverwinter Nights 2 is that you need at least four Sneak/Death Attack class levels more than the opponent has levels from a class with Improved Uncanny Dodge to flank the victim. So a level 10 Barbarian would be immune to flanking from anyone without at least 14 rogue and/or assassin levels.

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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Shadowy Reality » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:54 pm

Madukthedoppelganger wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:46 pm
Jagel wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:45 am
Peppermint wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:41 am

- Bizarre balancing adjustments. Uncanny Dodge now blocks sneak attack (thereby nerfing rogues, which are already one of the weakest classes.) Assassin Death attack procs less often (thereby nerfing assassins--already one of the weakest classes.) Stunning fist duration reduced (rendering unarmed monks virtually useless.)
Really ? Any char with uncanny dodge is now immune to sneaks? What the fizzassle :shock:
The precise quote from the Launch patch notes is "Fix to Uncanny Dodge 2 feat (higher-level rogues are now allowed to attack lesser rogues with Sneak/Death attacks)."
I couldn't find anything more specific than that with a quick search, but it seems based on the way the feat works in PnP and/or NWN2.

The way it apparently works in Neverwinter Nights 2 is that you need at least four Sneak/Death Attack class levels more than the opponent has levels from a class with Improved Uncanny Dodge to flank the victim. So a level 10 Barbarian would be immune to flanking from anyone without at least 14 rogue and/or assassin levels.
Which is really fair for assassin, as they can't get more than 20 levels in the PrC.

Madukthedoppelganger
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Madukthedoppelganger » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:03 pm

Alright, I did some quick sciencing in the PGCC and so far, the NWN 2 description seems to apply.
I made a level 10 Barbarian, spawned two level 10 rogues. When in combat, the rogues couldn't Sneak Attack but could when the Barbarian was out of combat (so, Flat-footed).
Barbarian 10/ Ranger 3 against level 13 rogues, same result.
Barbarian 10/Ranger 4 against level 14 rogues, however, the rogues started getting Sneak Attacks.

Edit:
Shadowy Reality wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:54 pm
Which is really fair for assassin, as they can't get more than 20 levels in the PrC.
Tested with a Ranger 6/Assassin 4/Rogue 10 and an animal companion against a Monk 10/ Assassin 10, the ranger was able to Sneak/Death Attack while the monk was engaged in battle with the animal companion, meaning Rogue and Assassin levels stack for the purpose of beating the Uncanny Dodge 2 flanking immunity.
Last edited by Madukthedoppelganger on Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Xerah
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Xerah » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:17 pm

The Intel thing, obviously, is a huge issue. #1 bad thing by a huge, huge margin.

The issues with Text encoding is my largest issue at the moment. Limited to 300 characters (approx., it gets wonky). Thankfully, we have a finger in the dam at the moment with the note update, though it's still a huge point of frustration.

Annoying bugs introduced with new patches (the door issue, the split chat issue, now the shoulder pad issue).

There are some minor things but those aren't as big of an issue, it's just that people are used to them being a certain way for the past X years.
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by yellowcateyes » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:19 pm

The patch notes imply that this behavior is tied specifically to Uncanny Dodge II. This would mirror NWN2 in which the 4 level difference restriction took effect only when the two characters had Improved Uncanny Dodge and not basic Uncanny Dodge.

My preference would be that Beamdog open this hardcoded behavior, as others, to module authors and PW developers to view and tweak. There are other patched changes that the community simply has to live with, as they involve hardcoded functions - for example the nerf to Monk Stun Fist.

Depending on the timeline of things, it's possible that some instances of Uncanny Dodge II will be removed until the code is opened up to community modification.
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Wytchee
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Wytchee » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:25 pm

btw the shoulder pad issue affects belts too
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Cortex
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Cortex » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:38 pm

Uncanny dodge and sneak attacks are a buggy mess, though for reference that immunity only works if you're not flat footed, if the rogue/barb/whatever is in active combat and they're sneak attacked, it will apply, if they're standing still or prone, they'll be sneaked.
:)

Basementfellow
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Basementfellow » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:17 pm

The game is noticeably less stable than the Diamond Edition. Crashes aside, I've been experiencing intense lag-spikes, and odd glitches that render the game virtually unplayable at times.

Sometimes the game will keep running as though everything's fine, but I won't be able to speak, or see what anyone else is saying, or examine players/objects. This forces me to log out, which takes an unusually long time, and is only exacerbated by the frequent 'failed to find server' messages.

Sometimes my character will decide he needs to sprint off in some random direction, or spin around on the spot like a top. His pauldrons and his belt are invisible much of the time. If they aren't, they'll be changing colors every transition, on my screen, at least. The colors of the clothing items in shops are also often mismatched.

Occasionally, and this is my favorite, every item/ability in my hotbar will be replaced by a different "weapon focus" feat.

Maybe these bugs were in the Diamond Edition, and I just never encountered them. Either way, I'd be moderately embarrassed if I were the one that released EE in this state.

Oh, but hey! We get Depth of Field! Blurry-Mode?! Freaking epic!!!

Tourmaline
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Tourmaline » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:28 pm

Seriously, is anyone making an effort to report all of this to Beamdog? I have a feeling a lot of their developers aren't playing on 24/7 persistent worlds all day testing this stuff, and aren't pushing both PVE and PVP to the limit like players here are.

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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Sockss » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:09 pm

Tourmaline wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:28 pm
Seriously, is anyone making an effort to report all of this to Beamdog? I have a feeling a lot of their developers aren't playing on 24/7 persistent worlds all day testing this stuff, and aren't pushing both PVE and PVP to the limit like players here are.
I think a big part of the problem is that a lot of these changes are not being tested at all.

As the above, but I'd add:

Changes are coming from a team that has minimal to no knowledge of the gameplay.
Hardcoded features are being changed but not unhardcoded, so we're stuck with them. (Related to above)
Thankfully this team is no longer being used.

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Hunter548
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by Hunter548 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:52 am

Tourmaline wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:28 pm
Seriously, is anyone making an effort to report all of this to Beamdog? I have a feeling a lot of their developers aren't playing on 24/7 persistent worlds all day testing this stuff, and aren't pushing both PVE and PVP to the limit like players here are.
The problem with this is they're pretending some of the stuff they intentionally pushed as "features" are bugs when it's reported to them.

The "items explode out of your inventory" thing? That was in the patch notes a couple of patches back, included as a feature. Clearly they already know about it when they're specifically making these changes.
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ReverentBlade
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Re: Enhanced Edition: The Bad

Post by ReverentBlade » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:59 am

The old trick you could use to "break" the chat bar character limit is gone. You used to be able to enter a single space, delete it, and then copy in as much text as you wanted.

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