Arelith

I noticed, not long ago that resource drain based on citizens was removed and replaced with a resource drain based on number of exiles. I always thought that both was involved in the equation for the yearly resource drain. With my current understanding, the resource system feel somewhat irrelevant as each exile cost five-thousand resources. Castles costs 1, 2 or 3 thousand resources yearly.
I am mostly curious why it was altered the way it was?

Old system: Resources drain was 1k for each citizen.

Pretty much at the same time exiles became restricted: Resource drain comes to 5k for each exile.

This ends up being roughly the same cost wise for larger settlements, higher for smaller settlements, if they're maxed out on their exile count. Except for Cordor who had since then had their exile count further reduced.

It was the first change of resources to grant services, followed by the expanded warehouse and castles, with other things in the pipeline.

So basically a City can have no ressource drain?
No Exiles, no drain? That somewhat saddens me, so basically a city dont need to maintain their stocks? At least drain pr 10 citizen at least? Something?

Sintarius wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:53 am

So basically a City can have no ressource drain?
No Exiles, no drain? That somewhat saddens me, so basically a city dont need to maintain their stocks? At least drain pr 10 citizen at least? Something?

The drain per citizen was kinda stupid in its heyday, it lead to settlements like Myon actively encouraging people not to become citizens since they'd just add to the drain, which meant more grinding required to keep the resources topped off.

The drain per citizen was kinda stupid in its heyday, it lead to settlements like Myon actively encouraging people not to become citizens since they'd just add to the drain, which meant more grinding required to keep the resources topped off.

I can see why some would do that, but surely, something else can be done, a fixed drain? So it dont go stagnant? That seems even worse, having a mechanic, that actually makes sense, adds to "another" thing you can do in the game, and kinda just throws it away..
I Find the mechanics very interesting, and well i love to see it evolve abit more.
Making Civic RP, a thing, so it isnt just "writs" and "PvP"..

I do agree that the resource system, at present, offers little reason for PCs to care about it.

This is a known issue and there are tentative plans to address this.

yellowcateyes wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:59 pm

I do agree that the resource system, at present, offers little reason for PCs to care about it.

The what? I didn't even notice it was still there.

I do hope these tentative plans don't result in it just becoming a case for epics to go resource grinding in lowbie areas now and then to top off on resources easily because that's what used to happen a lot back when the resource system mattered.

Replace resources with gold, and then epics can go grind epic levels for the gold. I mean, the city can presumably spend the gold to import the 'Resources' it needs anyway...

God please no. Gold is rare enough as it is without the black hole that is city resources eating up more.

I mean.
People have millions in their bank account.
You get ~thousands~ for completing a writ, along with the gold from corpses, which at high end dungeons, is silly money.
How do we have a gold shortage?

Rwby wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:52 am

How do we have a gold shortage?

Kits.

I thought you meant the actual resource gold, as in the one that drops gold ore that you need to smelt into gold bars. Not the currency gold which would be a lot more acceptable (if somewhat nonsensical).

Well it needs to change, its useless now.. just enough that a once every two weeks or one week, some dedicated players turns in stones and such. Banning a settlement for political reasons, makes no sense now, Trade ministry is useless or this regard aswell.. might aswell remove it entirely, Guldorand has under 100.000 stones, and never loses... thats pointless.
A fixed loss, and a little more than just overcapped exiles should extract..

As PinataPlethora says: You dont even notice is there...

Rwby wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:08 pm

Replace resources with gold, and then epics can go grind epic levels for the gold. I mean, the city can presumably spend the gold to import the 'Resources' it needs anyway...

If they trade with some yes, currently "a city" has only one trade partner, makes it hurt the other trade partner, makes political embargos pointless.. if it dont drop. If the last trade partner drops out aswell, "the city" would be in serious economical distress, but now? It dont matter.
Gold should be used as that only, buy resources from others, if theyre none to trade with, cause of War, Embargos etc. Thats When Gold Should not be used as "filling" up the stocks. Hard Labour is the key, and even if its War, a Siege makes more sense too. How would one gather resources if a other settlement is making siege?
You cant eat Gold or make basic medicine of gold, which the stock represent, Upkeep of a settlement

Nitro wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:59 pm

I do hope these tentative plans don't result in it just becoming a case for epics to go resource grinding in lowbie areas now and then to top off on resources easily because that's what used to happen a lot back when the resource system mattered.

Not just any epics either. Simply the epics actually involved in running the town. The old resource system attributed pretty solidly to attrition because it was very often a chore for the people running it to keep up with. On top of being PvPed for political reasons, you also had the feeling of being on a hamster wheel to keep resources up, with the settlement going bankrupt and elections being called if you ever stopped or slowed down.

This was especially a problem for larger settlements. Everyone is happy to participate in voting, less keen on keeping the settlement afloat.

...which gives me a decent idea. A poll tax. Make people pay resources periodically(every few weeks) to keep their citizenship valid. Don't want to pay the tax? You don't get a voice in politics then.

The problem with that is citizenship is only relevent for elections.

So everyone signs up to vote, the election happens, and then no-one pays their tax, everyone decitizenships, and no-one cares.

To be worth a maintience fee, you'd need citizen based incentive, and there's already a property Tax.

Durvayas wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:07 am

...which gives me a decent idea. A poll tax. Make people pay resources periodically(every few weeks) to keep their citizenship valid. Don't want to pay the tax? You don't get a voice in politics then.

Oof I find that problematic just because of the real world historical implications. Let's at least call it a Citizenship Tax or something less icky.

Nitro wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:22 am

Sintarius wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:53 am

So basically a City can have no ressource drain?
No Exiles, no drain? That somewhat saddens me, so basically a city dont need to maintain their stocks? At least drain pr 10 citizen at least? Something?

The drain per citizen was kinda stupid in its heyday, it lead to settlements like Myon actively encouraging people not to become citizens since they'd just add to the drain, which meant more grinding required to keep the resources topped off.

Myon wasn't the only place, since the only real benefit to being a citizen was voting, many places saw no need to encourage people to become one. It was bascily pay 10000 gold and well you can vote. Citizens were basicly a drain on the city with no real benefits for the city or characters. Only a settlement that had yearly elections wanted citizens. Most the drain made no sense but always felt citizens should drain food.

Having a Shop, requires Citizenship having a House there, requires Citizenship, that at least makes sure some will NEED to be Citizens, Being part of the Political Office, Need to be Citizen. If you change Citizenship (due to elections) you lose the House and Shop, makes sure, does "Become Citizens, cause there is a Election" will be limited..

It can be tricky as some has houses in different places, so maybe just the Shop? Or the House? Most logically would be the House.

I agree there should be Benefits and cost of being a Citizen, a better system should be made, and i understand that it was Grevious before, but now? its pointless, a good balance of both should be made... Being part of the Political System, requires ALSO maintance of their Settlement, right now its.. bad...

*EDIT* Spelling and more text