Arelith

So. On the one hand, we're not supposed to attack NPCs without DMs permission.

[Though I'm never sure if this extends to Neutral NPCs in the wild. Seagulls? Those Bendir Halflings that wander around? The Dwarves on patrol?]

But what happens if NPCs Hostile us and attack? Does that make them free game? Use of the Pickpocket system and desecrating Altars often turns NPCs hostile. Can we defend ourselves?

What about horses? Can we kill those?

Some of these touch on the case by case answer, but I discourage all of the above, sans deer and seagulls outside of a settlement. These questions also really should get PMed to Active DMs, they're not for players to answer, as they don't have the official answer, but this is my advice:

Patrolling NPCs should have permission for, it's very much like an attack on a settlement. It's not the worst thing if the patrol guard away from the settlement is attacked, while it is a definite rulebreak if you attack the horse riders in Greyhammer. But you should get permission either way, because the NPC guard isn't just going to stand there patrolling while you ward in front of it like nothing bad is going to happen. (Also attacking the Nixies in Minmir is kill-button-on-sight).

NPCs that hostile you in the settlement you probably should run away from. It would be (Read: Dumb) silly for a character to believe they can take on a whole city most of the time, and a player should keep in mind they may be taking down merchants or shopkeepers crucial for others use. So that altar desecrating could probably get a heads up, so we can make the experience smoother. If they have to take down a life or two to do it, it's not the worst thing, so case by case. If you're doing this regularly, it's probably bad.

Thanks Feygirl. I was asking here mostly because a) Someone might be aware of a previous ruling they could post, and b) If someone like you answered it might be nice for everyone to have access to the specifics rather than just me.

I've reported the bug with Altar desecration multiple times over the last several years. I don't think it's going to get fixed any time soon! [Not to anyone else. Just... Don't do it. It's a much smoother process to just bash the fixture now they're repairable, otherwise you will find yourself getting attacked by random horses three settlements away.]

Rwby wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:38 am

b) If someone like you answered it might be nice for everyone to have access to the specifics rather than just me.

I for one appreciate this.

Those patrolling NPCs often attack you also on roads outside of settlements. Would be silly to just run off them, only because DM is not supervising.

For example the gnome guards by the gnomish hutt and halflings walking down the roads between Bendir and Mayfield. Both attack monster races on sight. It is not -friendly- npc, if you play a monster, that npc is simple hostile to you as any other spawn.

As our lovely Unseelie DM noted. It's not for us to debate it. Dem's the rules.

Scripted NPCs are fair game, though, right? I'm referring to the ones who randomly might show up in a dungeon. When approaching them, the conversation can go many ways, one of the options being something like "I'm going to kill you, worm" for the most evil characters.

As Titania noted, some things are case-by-case. The evil dialogue for prisoners is one example, the Talosian torturers another (and the faction on those guys is all wonky anyhow).

There is, for instance, a big difference between a UD group deliberately hunting down the NPC Hawk'in patrols, and a lone UDer unintentionally being spotted and attacked by a patrolling NPC Hawk'in.

Baron Saturday wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:33 pm

As Titania noted, some things are case-by-case. The evil dialogue for prisoners is one example, the Talosian torturers another (and the faction on those guys is all wonky anyhow).

There is, for instance, a big difference between a UD group deliberately hunting down the NPC Hawk'in patrols, and a lone UDer unintentionally being spotted and attacked by a patrolling NPC Hawk'in.

Isn't the guidence here that in both cases you should be fleeing unless you've discussed it with the DMs before hand?

That's not clear from Titania's statement - it's a hostile NPC, so you're not just standing in front of it buffing while it doesn't react, but it's also not in a settlement, so it's not like you're trying to solo a whole settlement garrison.

There's a ton of possible scenarios, which is why such things are case-by-case, rather than there being a dozen sub-codas and so on.

Personally, I would be surprised if the team minded about the trade road patrol NPCs getting killed by passing monster PCs now and then, seeing as those patrol NPCs get killed all the time by monster NPCs anyhow. But, as I said, there's a clear difference between killing one that spots a monster PC while they're passing through, and killing one (or several) as part of a larger raid.

Baron Saturday wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:21 am

Personally, I would be surprised if the team minded about the trade road patrol NPCs getting killed by passing monster PCs now and then, seeing as those patrol NPCs get killed all the time by monster NPCs anyhow. But, as I said, there's a clear difference between killing one that spots a monster PC while they're passing through, and killing one (or several) as part of a larger raid.

I actually like that idea.

If the crucial NPCs (merchants, quest givers, etc) had auto-revive on the next tick, it wouldn't be that much of an inconvenience, either.

I don't feel an ounce of guilt crushing those obnoxious Erinyes that will follow you all around Dis and try to do their thing on you

JediMindTrix wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:08 am

I don't feel an ounce of guilt crushing those obnoxious Erinyes that will follow you all around Dis and try to do their thing on you

*sweats in sunite*

I would personally like it if the NPC's in Dis werent so chill about you turning up when you just spent the past two ingame days going on a full on anti-devil crusade across all of the fiendish planes, and then you turn up in Dis and... are no longer allowed to attack anyone??

why are you allowed to attack the devils in Jangling Hieter? that is also a devil city of Kyton.. it makes no sense really and always just seems totally improbable and immersion breaking as you walk through a place which is no different in its inhabitants as all of the other places you have just been on a full on murder spree, walking along merrily to the bar to use the portal source there.

a long time ago, neutral NPC's would not attack you if you attacked them, they would just stand there and die so i could fully understand not being allowed to attack NPC's under those conditions, but that isnt the case anymore, if you attack the npcs now they all go berzerk and it is no different to running into a standard mob of hostile enemies.

I think the case for Dis is that it's set up so you can conduct RP in there, and if you actually went around killing the placid NPC's there's no reason why the whole city wouldn't rally and get back at you. Which is why the DM's don't want us killing non-hostile NPC's, because they don't react in a manner that represents how they actually should without a DM presence.

Diilicious wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:56 pm

I would personally like it if the NPC's in Dis werent so chill about you turning up when you just spent the past two ingame days going on a full on anti-devil crusade across all of the fiendish planes, and then you turn up in Dis and... are no longer allowed to attack anyone??

why are you allowed to attack the devils in Jangling Hieter? that is also a devil city of Kyton.. it makes no sense really and always just seems totally improbable and immersion breaking as you walk through a place which is no different in its inhabitants as all of the other places you have just been on a full on murder spree, walking along merrily to the bar to use the portal source there.

a long time ago, neutral NPC's would not attack you if you attacked them, they would just stand there and die so i could fully understand not being allowed to attack NPC's under those conditions, but that isnt the case anymore, if you attack the npcs now they all go berzerk and it is no different to running into a standard mob of hostile enemies.

Not all places must be neccesary hostile and having one devil trying to kill you does not mean another would try same. Also i do not think you can kill a devil in their native plane They will just rematerilize….same with demons.

When you kill them in their home plane they permanently die. On the prime material plane they are banished for one hundred years but go home. It’s why the cool thing drew barimore could have done was kill ET.

Which is the immersion breaking and annoying part of Dis being chill about your presence really. you didnt just pat their friends on the back and put them to bed, you perminently killed them forever dead like... clearly having no respect for their rule, customs, or law.

I think Dis should be a place for RP if your alignment is within a certain range, otherwise the Devils should auto hostile you the moment they see you.

Dis in lore is a super orderly place where Mentiri's state would never happen and killing anyone in the city streets would land you in a devil's jail cell quicker than you can curse those obnoxious "Fogs of Boring Trash Mob"