DD Damage Reduction

[taoofbalance]

For those of you that have played Dwarven Defenders.

Have you noticed a large difference between a damage reduction of 21/- and 18/-

Will the three reduction in damage really make that big of a difference. Especially when lets say... compared again the benefits you could get from 7 levels of weapon master?

[Lorkas]

It depends on the amount of damage that's being dealt to you, honestly.

For example, if something is dealing an average of 24 physical damage per hit, then 21/- DR is actually twice as good as 18/- DR in the sense that you'll take half as much damage with 21/- (3 per hit) as you would with 18/- (6 per hit), not counting the 10% DI from armor/helm/shield.

On the other hand, if something is dealing 50 damage per hit, then there's a much lower difference between the two (you'll take 10% less damage with 21/- in that case--32 damage per hit compared with 29 damage per hit).

Either way you're quite sturdy, especially considering that you can't be flanked for sneak damage (though can take sneak damage in other ways, of course). It makes a big difference in survivability against enemies dealing 20-30 damage per hit, but the difference is less and less noticable as the damage-per-hit rises.

[Dalek Caan]

Not to forget the 10% resistances you can get from shield, helmet and armor! These actually help!

[Razmo_de]

The thing with DR is: The more you have, the better any additional DR gets (relatively speaking). You found the jump from 15 to 18 DR good? 18 to 21 is better.
Downside is, of course, 18 DD levels that mostly do not fit into the average build.
I'd give up on the last 4 DD levels to gain more multiclassing flexibility.
Fighter/DD/WM with a warhammer =3

[Dunshine]

I would make one with a Halberd and name him Halldor.

[taoofbalance]

I agree Razmo.

The reason I asked, is because I was debating between Fighter/DD OR Fighter/WM/DD with a Dwarven Waraxe. It's feat starved... but meh, the RP will be amazing!

[The Man of the Moon]

I agree Razmo.

The reason I asked, is because I was debating between Fighter/DD OR Fighter/WM/DD with a Dwarven Waraxe. It's feat starved... but meh, the RP will be amazing!

The RP...and the fun when hunting duergars, orcs, goblins, giants and any other menace for Brogendenstein... a brick wall unable to do reliable damage is booooring... But then, a wm dd? Not as much and awesome to be allowed to support great dmg but dealing fearsome wounds to your foes!

[Yellena]

You can consider taking Energy Resistances too, so you can avoid the the elemental damage from some hits.

[IndifferentPerson]

Base energy resistance is worthless as it doesn't stacks with -/5 from essences(or the gift for that matter). Only epic energy resistance that is worth taking is acid if you're melee and feel like trashing mages, it stacks with essences too.

Also noteworthy, builds that can bypass your DR are very likely to destroy you, such as divine might CHA users and magic damage from clerics.

[taoofbalance]

Well, one will save and this character is halted in its tracks.

But my hope is that in PVE he will be able to dish out punishment because of his WM levels as well as take a beating because of his DD levels, not to mention he'll have pretty good HP, AC, and AB.

In PVP.. well... umm... have powerful mage/cleric friends? lol

[Lorkas]

The pre-epic Resist Energy feats do stack with essences, just not with the epic feats. Don't take Resist Energy if you plan to take Epic Energy Resistance.

The energy resistance from the gift is an item-based resistance, so it will also stack with Resist Energy, but not with essences.

[Razmo_de]

Well, one will save and this character is halted in its tracks.

Clarity potions? Spellcraft? +1 universal saves gear?
The character will have pretty decent saves overall, since DD gives fort+ref saves. Only monk gives you all three saves.
EDIT:

In PVP.. well... umm... have powerful mage/cleric friends? lol

In PvP, use KD and kill them. If you cant, flee and deny them their victory. It is not really difficult. Any physical attack (except smites and scythe-crits) will give you a generous reaction time. Casters usually go buffing first, giving you reaction time again. The DD is able to eat Gruins and Hellballs and be unimpressed.
You'd be surprised what an advantage it is when you're always ready to go without buffing.

[IndifferentPerson]

Also *prays*, for that matter.

[msterswrdsmn]

Well, one will save and this character is halted in its tracks.

But my hope is that in PVE he will be able to dish out punishment because of his WM levels as well as take a beating because of his DD levels, not to mention he'll have pretty good HP, AC, and AB.

In PVP.. well... umm... have powerful mage/cleric friends? lol

If you're worried about your saves, wait until after epic levels to take serious WM levels; weaponmaster levels tend to murder saves on most builds (weak Fort and Will, which works against most melee classes higher fort). Aside from that, there are plenty of potions and save-boosting options.

[Yellena]

Base energy resistance is worthless as it doesn't stacks with -/5 from essences(or the gift for that matter). Only epic energy resistance that is worth taking is acid if you're melee and feel like trashing mages, it stacks with essences too.

Also noteworthy, builds that can bypass your DR are very likely to destroy you, such as divine might CHA users and magic damage from clerics.

Thanks for the cover. Completely forgot ordinary ER feats existed. Was refering to epic ones.
Fire Resist is nice too, as it basically negates Flame Arrows.

You can consider focusing on Fort Save as much as you can, so you won't die to death attacks and will hardly be knocked down by the big winged guys.

[Razmo_de]

If you're worried about your saves, wait until after epic levels to take serious WM levels; weaponmaster levels tend to murder saves on most builds (weak Fort and Will, which works against most melee classes higher fort). Aside from that, there are plenty of potions and save-boosting options.

Well, it all depends on how to distribute your levels pre-epic for the best amount of base saves. 10 DD pre-epic is a must to get out most of the dual fort/will base progression. Assuming you go fighter to supply WM feats, doing 1 or 4 levels of WM pre epic would be best.
At 1 level, you trade in 1 fort for 2 reflex base saves, which is good.
At 4 levels, you trade in 1 fort for 3 reflex base saves, which is better.
Multiclassing pre-epic generally improves your saves. You'll have good fort from your CON anyway, trading 1 point of it for 3 reflex saves is probably a good idea.
6Ftr/4WM/10DD pre-epic would be ideal.
Base Saves:
5+1+7= 13 fort
2+4+3= 9 ref
2+1+7= 10 will
Note that 12 is the high base save and 6 the low for a pure lvl 20 class. You'll just be 4 points total behind a full lvl 20 monk with 12/12/12.

[soundsofastream]

Back when I played Olga Anvilbreaker, she was the last one standing, most times...she'd even give mages and priests a run for their money. Depends whether you're going to be the tank of the party or the damage dealer. What's the purpose of the character... in PvP the extra 3 pts don't make a huge difference but in PvM, it does actually help and saves you gold on heal kits (not to mention, you get a spare feat out of going to 18). But if you're going for wm instead of rogue, then, you need the damage to make up for the lack of additional buffs (it's a damage build, not a tank build!). The theory being, you need to destroy whatever it is, before they get the spell off.

If you went for the Fighter/Rogue/DwD model (the tank build) then you'd be wanting every possible damage resistance you can get (Olga had every possible one you can think of and more hit points than you could poke a stick at, i'd built her to keep going against magic). The Damage dealer version (the Scotty build) can only potion buff, so you need to have a mage, bard or cleric buddy or lots of them since, you have limited self-wards.

[Razmo_de]

But if you're going for wm instead of rogue, then, you need the damage to make up for the lack of additional buffs (it's a damage build, not a tank build!).

It can be both at the same time. As soon as you are in a party with someone who can buff you, you'll outshine the rouge. At the same time, your defenses and offenses combined (good AC, good AB, good DR, good dmg) will get you into a 'sweet place' for killing most monsters solo, even without imp invis.
Aditionally, you are able to flexibly set your purpose in a party. You often can't choose which role to play in a given party. If the party needs a tank and you're the only meleer, then you are it. If the party needs a damage dealer, then you are it. Simple as that.
PvP will of course be not the thing you'll be shining at. Then again, you don't have buffs so you are always 'ready to go'. This is big + for spontaneously attacking people. PvP is a mess anyway.