Duergar Rangers or Archers

You have questions? We may have answers.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Active DMs

Post Reply
User avatar
Kenji
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 1496
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
Location: Mechanics Dungeon

Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Kenji » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:59 pm

Do they exist? My common perception of these dark dwarves is that they prefer being warriors or clerics as well as using crossbows over bows.

On the surface, being a dwarven ranger can make sense, but what about duergar?

I rather like my quartermaster build and wish to have at least one character in one of each known locations in Arelith (Cordor, Earthkin Alliance, Skal, and now Andunor). I just need to make sure that Duergars using bows aren't considered as special. Rather, I want my characters as close to the lore or the settings as possible.

yellowcateyes
Project Lead
Project Lead
Posts: 1445
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:02 am

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by yellowcateyes » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:19 pm

You're not wrong about duergars preferring to use crossbows. The 3rd Ed. Races of Faerun describe a particular type of crossbow ammunition unique to duergar runesmiths - bolts of battering.

Where they are listed in monster manuals, duergar tactics are described as relying on crossbows at range. You wouldn't be breaking lore by making a duergar archer.
Dinosaur Space Program is my working partner on Arelith-related projects. If my inbox is full or I take a while to get back to you, feel free to PM them questions or concerns.

User avatar
Kenji
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 1496
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
Location: Mechanics Dungeon

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Kenji » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:51 pm

Guess I'll just take rapid reload with one of the feats and sell the arrows to the drow, instead. But it's such a hassle crafting damask bundle of bolts. Maybe I'll use longbow on a duergar, afterall.

What about skills? I assume ride will be useless in the Underdark. Any 'animals' in the underdark that can be pacified with Animal empathy?

User avatar
Astegard
Arelith Gold Supporter
Arelith Gold Supporter
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:10 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Astegard » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:14 pm

Kenji3108 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:51 pm
Any 'animals' in the underdark that can be pacified with Animal empathy?
pfft animals, UD has magical beasts :P go tame some yeti or monstrosities (havent seen a lot that can be pacified though)

BattleDrake
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:29 pm

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by BattleDrake » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:36 am

If you can, go Spider totem with your Duergar. Duergar have a special breed of spiders called Steeders that they use to ride around/attack with. Duergars that use them are called Kavalrachni. Had an idea to make one myself with Transmutation focuses and RP riding the Steeder to the destination :).

As for AE, there's a few to choose from(like the spiders in the Nidus), but the best are in the Zurkhwood grove. If you can manage to grab ahold of those Bulettes, you'll be set into your mid teens/possibly epics.

Recent Characters:
Aramis - "S'fine piece of art yer havin' there." (Shelved)
Eradyn - Trying to make the world a better place. (Shelved)
[Redacted] - ? (?)
Skek - Happiness in Endless Industry. (Rolled)


User avatar
Jagel
Posts: 1250
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: Scandinavia

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Jagel » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:39 pm

Ride also has a function in the ud other than riding

User avatar
Kenji
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 1496
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
Location: Mechanics Dungeon

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Kenji » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:52 pm

BattleDrake wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:36 am
If you can, go Spider totem with your Duergar. Duergar have a special breed of spiders called Steeders that they use to ride around/attack with. Duergars that use them are called Kavalrachni. Had an idea to make one myself with Transmutation focuses and RP riding the Steeder to the destination :).

As for AE, there's a few to choose from(like the spiders in the Nidus), but the best are in the Zurkhwood grove. If you can manage to grab ahold of those Bulettes, you'll be set into your mid teens/possibly epics.
This is Gold! I'm most excited about the mounted part. But does Andunor provide these "steeders" like how they have horses everywhere on the surface? Or do I have to get to level 6 for animal companion as well as finding the totem NPC for the binding pact. I assume I will be summoning my own spiders to 'ride' then, or is just a thematic thing in the UD?

User avatar
Jagel
Posts: 1250
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: Scandinavia

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Jagel » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:41 pm

No riding spiders I’m afraid. It’s just s lige thing you can sort of mimic by getting spider totem for ranger. And drow will hate you :)

BattleDrake
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:29 pm

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by BattleDrake » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:39 am

No actual rideable spiders unfortunately, probably not even possible. If it was, i'm sure Drow would get their lizard mounts first :D. Just a tool for rp, hence the Transmutation focuses to "Rp" riding the spider to a destination, vs actually riding it(Was inspired by a player whom rp'd their transport as Vines sucking them into the ground and taking them to their destination). Also once had an idea of making a Druid Duergar spider totem and rping my spider form was a mounted duergar. Obvious "WYSIWYG" issues there, along with justifying the druid RP, but the concept I think is neato.

As for drow hate, that's definitely going to happen. Even though the Steeders were a gift from Lolth to Laduguer during some war, and they're a specific type of breed only the Duergar have, drow no like other spider owners :), but you're a duergar with likely -CHA, just tell them "ter piss off an go kiss ah squig!".

Recent Characters:
Aramis - "S'fine piece of art yer havin' there." (Shelved)
Eradyn - Trying to make the world a better place. (Shelved)
[Redacted] - ? (?)
Skek - Happiness in Endless Industry. (Rolled)


User avatar
Durvayas
Arelith Supporter
Arelith Supporter
Posts: 2207
Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 6:20 am

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Durvayas » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:36 pm

Given exactly how drow treat spiders depends heavily on which sect of lolth(some will kill you for harming spiders, yet other sects don't mind eating spiders, etc) some drow are sure to take offense, some drow might ask you where they can get their own. It depends on which sect of lolthite worship is currently in power. (many sects of lolth. Guallidurth, the city of shrines, has dozens of different sects)

There ARE steeder's in NwN, but they're only usable via HAKs(Bring them here devs. I want a spider knight).
Plays: Durvayas(deleted), Marco(deleted), Hounynrae(NPC), Sinithra Auvry'ndal(rolled), Rauvlin Barrith(Active), Madeline Clavelle(Shelved)

User avatar
Kenji
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 1496
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
Location: Mechanics Dungeon

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Kenji » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:16 pm

Thanks for the input, folks. As much as I like where this was headed, I will have to put this character concept on hold until some form of steeder is implemented and crossbow rangers are a thing. (Or just crossbow rangers, riding isn't necessary, but I don't want to play a bow duergar, seeing that crossbows are the usual thing for them)

Though from the discussion, it is looking more and more lore-friendly once those mechanics are implemented. (Or maybe never, so this may never see light)

Suggestion box here I come!

User avatar
Jagel
Posts: 1250
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: Scandinavia

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Jagel » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:42 pm

You could go ranger without taking the sniper/archer path. There are some decent crossbows out there and with the ranger's favourite/studied enemies you'd be doing decent damage even with bronze bolts. Then you chop anything that survives your bolts with dual handaxes. The x3 crit works well with the above damage boosts.

You could then rp your as if you're breeding steeders but have not yet succeeded in making one actually accept a rider :P

User avatar
Kenji
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 1496
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
Location: Mechanics Dungeon

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Kenji » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:58 am

This post may as well be in the Builds & Mechanics section of the forums or another thread regarding UD customs, but I might just take your word of advice in! A Duergar spider breeder in hopes of introducing steeders to the region. Best way to lobby for them in game, I guess.

Ranger (sniper path) 23 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 3 with Spider totem. Use crossbows instead of bows and use one feat to take rapid reload.

I may need help on the RP in the UD part. Do Duergars use the same "dwarf speak" in UD but using undercommon, instead?
Examples being: Ye for you, yer for your or you're, nay/nae for no/not, etc. all the while speaking in -un.

User avatar
Aodh Lazuli
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 626
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:56 am

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Aodh Lazuli » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:45 am

Kenji3108 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:58 am
I may need help on the RP in the UD part. Do Duergars use the same "dwarf speak" in UD but using undercommon, instead?
Examples being: Ye for you, yer for your or you're, nay/nae for no/not, etc. all the while speaking in -un.
The fact people think this is the only way for a dwarf to speak annoys me.
Sofawiel wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:09 pm
Dont text eggplants.

User avatar
Kenji
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 1496
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
Location: Mechanics Dungeon

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Kenji » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:17 pm

Aodh Lazuli wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:45 am
The fact people think this is the only way for a dwarf to speak annoys me.
Woah there, I didn't say it was the only way the dwarves would speak. But it's my preferred way of RP'ing as a surface dwarf. I have played a dwarven knight with thou thee thy and thines just as well as a regular common speaker without all the flavor.

If you get annoyed easily like this, I suggest you take it somewhere else, friend. Imposing your will via passive aggression is really unnecessary and causes drama.

JediMindTrix
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:35 am

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by JediMindTrix » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:23 pm

Aodh Lazuli wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:45 am
The fact people think this is the only way for a dwarf to speak annoys me.
It's just burnout from experiencing it for a long time, I feel the same about it.
Kenji3108 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:17 pm
I suggest you take it somewhere else, friend.
Are you imposing your will via passive-aggression?

User avatar
Kenji
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 1496
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
Location: Mechanics Dungeon

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Kenji » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:28 pm

I can see this turning into a drama thread, already. Let's get back to the question, yea?

Allow me to rephrase it this time so fewer folks get offended or annoyed for some odd reasons:
When speaking as Duergars, can the same dwarf speak apply without detracting the immersion of other players?

User avatar
Aodh Lazuli
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 626
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:56 am

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Aodh Lazuli » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:30 pm

... Well. That was a strong reaction.

Basically, do as you please. The "accent" conventions are there for you to conform with or alter/ignore. There is no right and wrong way.
Sofawiel wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:09 pm
Dont text eggplants.

User avatar
Kenji
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 1496
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
Location: Mechanics Dungeon

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Kenji » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:39 pm

Stronger than intended, my bad, but I want to make sure my characters are as seamless as possible going into the world. An ol' habit of a PNP DM, let other players take the spotlight in game. And it doesn't hurt to do as much research as possible before delving in.

What are your experiences when it comes to UD Duergar? Particularly the way they speak, I rather liked how others mentioned that "Drow might hate outsiders who have spider pets". Anything similar with the Duergar?

User avatar
Jagel
Posts: 1250
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: Scandinavia

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Jagel » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:31 pm

I've never played a duergar but like normal dwarves they seem to welcome new members of their race into the existing clans rather warmly (for a deep dwarf).

When joining the UD as an underdark race you could always rp someone who's just arrived and need tutoring as to the customs of the weird melting pot of Andunor.

Usually duergar are tacit/gruff and I've observed they enjoy a bit of leeway from drow because they aren't expected to be tactful.

Feel free to shoot tells to anyone around and ask for advice or ask IC. People will usually find away to help while still acting as complete bastards (IC). Most people are friendly OOC to make up for the IC harshness.

User avatar
R0GUE
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 423
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:10 pm
Location: Washington, DC
Contact:

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by R0GUE » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:43 pm

I look at Duergar as warped and sadistic dwarves, the same way drow are warped, sadistic elves (that part might be obvious), but think about how a dwarf society would turn evil after being scarred and thrown away and given centuries to fester underground.

So some of the traits I would associate with duergar are:
- extreme greed (dwarves are already susceptible to greed even the good ones)
- a very hot temper. Although cunning duergar would still realize they don't want to insult or "go off" on beings who are more powerful than them - instead their anger would be turned inward and they would look for opportunities to get revenge on their enemies. But once the tables have turned, I would expect them to unleash their wrath on their enemies with extreme prejudice.
- prefer mechanical solutions to magical ones - but unlike their goodly brethren who make practical mining and engineering equipment, they focus on tools of war
- while the goodly dwarves live in an extremely lawful society, and much like how drow have devolved into chaos, I could see many duergar civilizations turning to chaos as well. Cut-throat politics would be the norm, likely powerful illegal cartels rule their cities, making their official leaders mere figureheads. Duergar rogues are prevalent, but they aren't typically the sneaky, hide in the shadows type of rogues, they are more likely to be thugs and ruffians, who are just as happy to shank you in your front as your back.
- I could also see a Duergar city existing much like Immortan Joe's society in Mad Max: Fury Road. Perhaps they have a central powerful King supported by a few powerful close allies. That upper echelon reserves the right to take all, they own everyone and everything. And the rest of the clan is just a mess of chaotic War Boys, fighting for position and survival, hoping to please their King and get noticed enough to be granted a blessing.

Any help?

Nitro
Posts: 2800
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:04 pm

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Nitro » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:19 pm

I quite like the description of their personalities in Races of Faerun:
Races of Faerun wrote: Duergar were at heart a grim and bitter race, pessimistic of their future and deeply cynical regarding the motives of others. In a dark inversion of the strong family bonds typical of their dwarven kin, duergar viewed their kin and clan as adversaries set on holding them back, an expectation that became a self-fulfilling prophecy since every duergar came to believe this from early childhood. As a result, duergar were a dark and cruel race, who showed no mercy to their foes and who took great pleasure in inflicting pain on others, a welcome relief from what they believed was a meaningless life ended with betrayal.

User avatar
Durvayas
Arelith Supporter
Arelith Supporter
Posts: 2207
Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 6:20 am

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Durvayas » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:04 pm

Nitro wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:19 pm
I quite like the description of their personalities in Races of Faerun:
Races of Faerun wrote: Duergar were at heart a grim and bitter race, pessimistic of their future and deeply cynical regarding the motives of others. In a dark inversion of the strong family bonds typical of their dwarven kin, duergar viewed their kin and clan as adversaries set on holding them back, an expectation that became a self-fulfilling prophecy since every duergar came to believe this from early childhood. As a result, duergar were a dark and cruel race, who showed no mercy to their foes and who took great pleasure in inflicting pain on others, a welcome relief from what they believed was a meaningless life ended with betrayal.
TIL: Duergar are really short angsty drow with sick beards.
Plays: Durvayas(deleted), Marco(deleted), Hounynrae(NPC), Sinithra Auvry'ndal(rolled), Rauvlin Barrith(Active), Madeline Clavelle(Shelved)

StrykerMontgomery
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:14 pm

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:30 am

Don't forget.. everyone speaks in undercommon. I always understood dwarven accents to accents in common (I don't understand why people continue to talk in accents when doing their native, language.. perhaps the language itself just sounds that way, but if I were to translate to common common, as a common speaker, surely it would not have those accents).
Currently played characters:
Have not played for over a year, thinking of returning again

User avatar
Kenji
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 1496
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
Location: Mechanics Dungeon

Re: Duergar Rangers or Archers

Post by Kenji » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:21 am

With the recent ranger update, I have no excuse but to actually play a duergar ranger in the UD, now!

From what you guys have described, Duergars have a very different form of LE than what I am used to. Quite daunting and exciting, in fact. There is also something about the video game representation of the Underdark that provides a different experience than it being described from a PnP session.

Post Reply