Fort save for undead against healing magic?

[Diilicious]

I dont remember this ever being a thing as it is something i usually look for (checking my DC) when i cast storm of vengeance and things like that, however it has never been like this to my knowledge healing vs undead creatures before...

[Cortex]

Which spells?

[Nitro]

Don't know about fort saves, but I know most healing spells have a reflex save when used on undead.

[StrykerMontgomery]

Reflex makes no sense, it should be a will save.

[Baron Saturday]

I am so confused by this thread. I thought using a healing spell on undead just required a melee touch attack.

[Wytchee]

I am so confused by this thread. I thought using a healing spell on undead just required a melee touch attack.

It does. Are people reporting saves being made against healing spells?

Other spells like Sunburst require a reflex save. Undeath to Death is a will save. Healing spells are just a touch attack.

[StrykerMontgomery]

Harm has touch and fort save. Heal should have touch and fort/will save (undead have no con so it's will in 3.5 dnd)

I concur though this thread is unclear.

[TimeAdept]

Healing spells cast on undead force a Touch Atttack, and if successful, Undead receive a will save for half damage vs the spell. I don't believe Mass Heal needs a touch attack but the rest do.

[Diilicious]

[Nitro]

Yep, that checks out. Healing Circle even has Save: Fortitude 1/2 listed on the NWN wiki.

[flower]

Heal, harm, should be saveless.

If save is ever pulled on them, the damage/heal should be uncapped again.

[TimeAdept]

Heal, harm, should be saveless.

If save is ever pulled on them, the damage/heal should be uncapped again.

yeah agreed a saveless reduction to 1d4 hp where you can haste harm into "literally anything" and kill is totally balanced

[flower]

Heal, harm, should be saveless.

If save is ever pulled on them, the damage/heal should be uncapped again.

yeah agreed a saveless reduction to 1d4 hp where you can haste harm into "literally anything" and kill is totally balanced

I said, if save is put on them and thus nerfing both spells into oblivion, then return d4 effect on failed save.

[StrykerMontgomery]

The problem wasnt just that you went to no hp when you fail a save, but that you still lost like half your health I believe if you pass your save?

[flower]

The problem wasnt just that you went to no hp when you fail a save, but that you still lost like half your health I believe if you pass your save?

Harm had no save. But still counter in spell immunity.

If it received further nerf like adding save to the current version, then it would be made irrelevant spell, just another clerical useless spell in the spellbook.

[JediMindTrix]

flower is right
the massive # of non-auto stacking Negative Energy Potions already kind of make Harm a joke.

[StrykerMontgomery]

The problem wasnt just that you went to no hp when you fail a save, but that you still lost like half your health I believe if you pass your save?

Harm had no save. But still counter in spell immunity.

If it received further nerf like adding save to the current version, then it would be made irrelevant spell, just another clerical useless spell in the spellbook.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/harm.htm

I don't understand why a standard 3.5 spell is useless (saving throw and damage cap), but ok. The problem is most spells don't scale super well when we go into the realm of epic lvl stuff, not the spell in itself. It is only a lvl 6 spells when epics should be casting lvl 9-10 spells.

[flower]

The problem wasnt just that you went to no hp when you fail a save, but that you still lost like half your health I believe if you pass your save?

Harm had no save. But still counter in spell immunity.

If it received further nerf like adding save to the current version, then it would be made irrelevant spell, just another clerical useless spell in the spellbook.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/harm.htm

I don't understand why a standard 3.5 spell is useless (saving throw and damage cap), but ok. The problem is most spells don't scale super well when we go into the realm of epic lvl stuff, not the spell in itself. It is only a lvl 6 spells when epics should be casting lvl 9-10 spells.

In context of NWN spells...harm is the only spell dealing significant damage for a cleric. Pulling will save onto it in this context is out. Majority of clerical spells are ref-save and low circle, this means low DC vs most likely a evasion (famous 3 lvl rogue dip) . Giving it save would also strip now already stranded BCs from one of their tools (DC would be always low for them).

[Dredi]

Flower's undying loyalty to the Harm spell aside for a moment:

Harm as per the Wiki should work as follows: Harm: Deals 10*CL points of damage. Will not reduce health below 1 HP.

Healing Circle: Healing Circle: Level cap removed. Also, when casted it creates a stationary zone below the caster that heals all creatures within the area of effect each round for a period of three rounds, for a total of up to 3 * (1d8 + Caster Level) additional healing to all creatures that remain within the area of effect.

No comments on either of these to indicate saves added or removed. Will saves are typically allowed for Negative energy spells and are *Listed* as being allowed for undead against cure spells, but this is not actually the case in the base game and they just do flat damage with a melee touch attack.

So, technically, while it is unusual, healing circles fortitude save is correct and as intended. If you feel it should be a will save instead, then thats a suggeastion.

It was once upon a time that Harm just flat took you to 1d4hp, regardless of your max HP and as a long term cleric main of the time, I can tell you it was overpowered as heck so am quite happy with where the spell sits currently.

[StrykerMontgomery]

Harm had no save. But still counter in spell immunity.

If it received further nerf like adding save to the current version, then it would be made irrelevant spell, just another clerical useless spell in the spellbook.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/harm.htm

I don't understand why a standard 3.5 spell is useless (saving throw and damage cap), but ok. The problem is most spells don't scale super well when we go into the realm of epic lvl stuff, not the spell in itself. It is only a lvl 6 spells when epics should be casting lvl 9-10 spells.

In context of NWN spells...harm is the only spell dealing significant damage for a cleric. Pulling will save onto it in this context is out. Majority of clerical spells are ref-save and low circle, this means low DC vs most likely a evasion (famous 3 lvl rogue dip) . Giving it save would also strip now already stranded BCs from one of their tools (DC would be always low for them).

I guess clerics don't get offensive epic spells in nwn, eh?