Usage of Latin/Old English in RP

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Kenji
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Usage of Latin/Old English in RP

Post by Kenji » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:21 pm

First and foremost, words of both advice and rules of thumb are given by the DM:
DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:01 pm
Using [an] accent is fine.

Dropping the odd word of a foreign language is also OK, [especially] if that word can be deciphered in context. (Someone walks up to you and says 'Bonjour!' you can make a good guess that [it's] some form of 'hello' for example.)

But you should avoid conversations in a different language, or using a RL language to interact [solely] with someone else.

So if you want your character to drop the odd [Latin] word which, for the most part, is translatable by context, or [relatively irrelevant] - you should be ok. Just don't use it constantly on your character.
With that in mind, we have players who have given their thoughts regarding what the RL Latin and Old English would be the equivalent of IG, lore-wise.
Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:55 pm
As an additional note, when people use Latin in-game, the two Forgotten Realms languages I've usually seen it stand in for it are Loross (old High Netherese) and Thorass (old/"auld" Common). They both have pretty fair claims to be the Forgotten Realms equivalent, even if neither fits perfectly.

Thorass is the ancestor to Common, Chondathan, Cormanthan, etc etc etc., but it tends to be styled more as Old/Middle English rather than Latin in the fluff.

Loross was the high tongue of Netheril, and so the 'dead noble language of a fallen empire that influenced all after it' niche is filled, but it doesn't have the relation to Forgotten Realms romance language-equivalents that Thorass does.
Please post what you think about the usage of Latin words and Old English when it comes to RP'ing in Arelith. Is it helpful in your immersion? Is it breaking your immersion sometimes? How much usage is too much? How much more of such usage of Latin or Old English would you like to see?

Please be nice to each other, and know that what your expectations about immersion and RP experience are subjective and there is no need to insult others for them having a different perspective.
Last edited by Kenji on Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by The GrumpyCat » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:01 pm

Using a accent is fine.

Dropping the odd word of a foreign language is also OK, especialy if that word can be deciphered in context. (Someone walks up to you and says 'Bonjour!' you can make a good guess that its' some form of 'hello' for example.)

But you should avoid conversations in a different language, or using a RL language to interact soley with someone else.

So if you want your character to drop the odd latin word which, for the most part, is translatable by context, or relitivly irrelevent - you should be ok. Just don't use it constantly on your character.
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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:49 pm

There once was a paladin, still having his mark upon arelith, who spoke the whole time king James/Shakespeare style with thou and thy.
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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:55 pm

As an additional note, when people use Latin in-game, the two Forgotten Realms languages I've usually seen it stand in for it are Loross (old High Netherese) and Thorass (old/"auld" Common). They both have pretty fair claims to be the Forgotten Realms equivalent, even if neither fits perfectly.

Thorass is the ancestor to Common, Chondathan, Cormanthan, etc etc etc., but it tends to be styled more as Old/Middle English rather than Latin in the fluff.

Loross was the high tongue of Netheril, and so the 'dead noble language of a fallen empire that influenced all after it' niche is filled, but it doesn't have the relation to Forgotten Realms romance language-equivalents that Thorass does.

Personally, I usually refer to any in-game Latin as Loross, because I think the thematic elements are more interesting than the etymological ones, and Thorass is already "Ye Olde Fake-Medieval Speake."

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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Iceborn » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:02 pm

^
While I don't like most real life languages being used in the game, I make an exception for Latin, in the shape of Loross.
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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Nitro » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:38 pm

Personally, I find it very silly when I see a "Deus Vult" dropped in IC chatter, just really takes me out of immersion.

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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:38 pm

Asmodeus Vult.

Done.


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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Kenji » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:52 pm

Nitro wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:38 pm
Personally, I find it very silly when I see a "Deus Vult" dropped in IC chatter, just really takes me out of immersion.
Ha! Yea, that line got memified to the point where it's terrible for immersion. I don't plan on using that, but more along the lines of...

"Hail, bellator."
"Greetings ta ye, ser. Wot's that mean?"
"A warrior, 'tis an olde term of the ancient Loross tongue. Thou markest the bearings of one."

Not the best example, but it's the one I can come up with. I don't plan on having full-on conversations in Latin, I'd even try to avoid using them to speak with folks. Maybe drop a few words here and there given the circumstances to keep the RP flowing or break ice, but never the main focus of an RP.

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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Cuchilla » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:57 pm

... errare humanum est, sed perseverare turpe

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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Kenji » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:08 pm

You know what, I give up. If it's that bad, I'll stick with thou thee and thy.

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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Baron Saturday » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:20 pm

It's not that bad, just make sure you're using it for flavor instead of to conceal meaning.
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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Opustus » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:49 pm

I've used Latin and music words a lot, and also dialects which are basically separate languages (there's a saying among linguists that languages are really just dialects with an army). I think the meanings carried over with the use of dialects or other languages' expressions (widely known to the anglophone world) are comparable to how we perceive them in real life contexts. The use of musical words, (allegro for casting Haste, forte for casting Bull's, etc.) probably sounds snobbish; heavy Scottish accent probably sounds coarse or cloistered or drunken; Cockney sounds probably low-class urban; Latin probably sounds religious or archaic, and so on.
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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by MoreThanThree » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:02 pm

Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:38 pm
Asmodeus Vult.
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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Cortex » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:39 pm

異教徒への死
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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Duchess_Says » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:48 pm

Kenji3108 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:08 pm
You know what, I give up. If it's that bad, I'll stick with thou thee and thy.
I can't help but think someone is trying to sound like they're quoting the King James Bible when I hear thee, thou or thy. It's worse than Latin for me, immersion-wise.

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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Kenji » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:03 am

Can't please everyone in the world, from the looks of it.

I remember in Icewind Dale II, there was this one Aurilite priestess who spoke in pure Thou, Thee, Thy, Thine, Yay, Nay, and such, the whole package. Fully voiced and everything. I loved it at first, but it got tiresome later as I inquired more questions. I find the perfect balance to be incorporating it in formality or pleasantries rather than casual conversations. "Blessings upon thee, traveler." or "How fare thy travels, friend?" Only using it occasionally.

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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by MoreThanThree » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:26 am

>the singular second person form in english
>also formal
lmao you guys
"thou" is actually the informal form of "you", which was dropped in the 17th century around London because it was considered rude.
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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Kenji » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:19 pm

People in the Builds and Mechanics section are so much nicer to each other than here. Says much about powergamers and roleplayers in general. I think I'll stick to that section there... Ha! Nah, I jest about the generalization, folks can be mean or nice to each other whether they agree or disagree with each other, regardless of what type of gamer they are.

It feels good to be a smart-a**, I know, but at the end of the day, my OP wished to inquire some answers and thoughts regarding the usage of Latin. Some good, some bad, some neutral. Some gave great insights, some just had a snarky one-liner that did the thread more harm than good by discouraging discussion. But hey, thanks for sharing your thoughts either way.

I'm transforming the thread into a discussion of Latin (Loross) / Old English (Thoross) since the two seem to be discussed in tandem.

If only I can make a poll to get some kind of basic statistics of what folks like/tolerate in their RP. So far from reading the posts, I have a general idea that folks like only a sprinkle of Latin for flavor text to be used compared to the coarse Old English being used in full might.

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Re: Usage of Latin/Old English in RP

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:02 pm

Some are saying in moderation when ironically enough the best time i saw it pulled off was because the character so damn consistent about it; it's not easy consistently soeakijgnin old English for RL years consistently lol. (A street in cordor is named after him, so it's a little hard to say "it never happened" although the street did get downgraded and the statue in wharftown was destroyed, so it might one day happen)

*edit*

It also helped when said player RPed in a fashion that enabled other players to have an enjoyable experience, feel included, etc.
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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Opustus » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:12 pm

Kenji3108 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:19 pm
If only I can make a poll to get some kind of basic statistics of what folks like/tolerate in their RP. So far from reading the posts, I have a general idea that folks like only a sprinkle of Latin for flavor text to be used compared to the coarse Old English being used in full might.
Meh, don't care about the haters. Language and its many quirks are meant to be used for our own entertainment; as long as you're having fun with it, you can disregard the rest. I hate it when people start drawing lines of appropriate use of language in RP settings, it always seems so arbitrary to me who likes what and why.
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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by Kenji » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:00 pm

Opustus wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:12 pm
Meh, don't care about the haters. Language and its many quirks are meant to be used for our own entertainment; as long as you're having fun with it, you can disregard the rest. I hate it when people start drawing lines of appropriate use of language in RP settings, it always seems so arbitrary to me who likes what and why.
You have a point there, whether others like it or not is subjective based on their own expectations of the language and standard of RP.

At the same time, it takes more than one for a far more interactive RP. It can be good to know what others would like to have in the RP, but not to be afraid to the point where one limits his own RP quirks only to cater to others.

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Re: Usage of Latin/Old English in RP

Post by Conversations With Your Car Alarm » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:45 pm

I spend a lot of time searching for a character’s voice. Trying to get to a place where I don’t have to think about what would this character do, but rather have it just organically flow. I’ve accomplished this with maybe 10% of the characters I’ve played any significant amount of time. When that happens, they have always had their own syntax. Sometimes it’s extremely unique, sometimes it’s just taking a particular type of regional dialect for a little walk. Don’t be afraid to push the bounds of language in your rp. Writers I really adore have done this thing amazing results (A clockwork orange/ Everything is illuminated).

And don’t try to crowd source opinions about the specifics of your rp. People can have a tendency towards safety when talking about this kind of stuff. Just do you and have fun.

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Re: Speaking Latin in game

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:28 pm

Opustus wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:12 pm
Kenji3108 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:19 pm
If only I can make a poll to get some kind of basic statistics of what folks like/tolerate in their RP. So far from reading the posts, I have a general idea that folks like only a sprinkle of Latin for flavor text to be used compared to the coarse Old English being used in full might.
Meh, don't care about the haters. Language and its many quirks are meant to be used for our own entertainment; as long as you're having fun with it, you can disregard the rest. I hate it when people start drawing lines of appropriate use of language in RP settings, it always seems so arbitrary to me who likes what and why.
All we ask, from a 'rules' standpoint, is:
Baron Saturday wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:20 pm
It's not that bad, just make sure you're using it for flavor instead of to conceal meaning.
So long as that's the case? You do you! Let other people have their likes and dislikes, if you wanna do it? Do it. I guarentee you'll get as many (if not more) people loving it as hating it - so long as it's basicaly comprehensable anyway.
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Re: Usage of Latin/Old English in RP

Post by Opustus » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:34 pm

Conversations With Your Car Alarm wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:45 pm
I spend a lot of time searching for a character’s voice. Trying to get to a place where I don’t have to think about what would this character do, but rather have it just organically flow. I’ve accomplished this with maybe 10% of the characters I’ve played any significant amount of time. When that happens, they have always had their own syntax. Sometimes it’s extremely unique, sometimes it’s just taking a particular type of regional dialect for a little walk. Don’t be afraid to push the bounds of language in your rp. Writers I really adore have done this thing amazing results (A clockwork orange/ Everything is illuminated).

And don’t try to crowd source opinions about the specifics of your rp. People can have a tendency towards safety when talking about this kind of stuff. Just do you and have fun.
I really like the way you put it!
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Re: Usage of Latin/Old English in RP

Post by Freyason » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:20 pm

I had 7 years of Latin in school and it blows my mind someone would be fluent in it lol

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