Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

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Aelryn Bloodmoon
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Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:05 pm

Myrkul is another deity whom "died" during the time of troubles. Most of his followers converted to Jergal or Kelemvor or another deity.

As you might expect with gods, "dead" is not always (or even frequently) a permanent thing, even when their personal avatar is destroyed on the prime. According to source material, Myrkul cast his essence into the crown of horns. Google will provide some details on this crown, or if requested I can find relevant links.

Here's the main question: If I wanted to pursue playing a priest of Myrkul who had a vision of a crown in his god's image upon the island of Arelith (and thus his reason for coming -arriving with the intention of reviving his god from a crown to a proper deity)- regardless of whether or not I would ever actually find said crown; is that allowed?

WYSIWYG, and I don't believe Myrkul is on the supported list; could I select a similar deity such as Velsharoon and RP it as Myrkul, or would something like this require a reward? Further, how would I best address the issue of Piety levels?
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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by The Rambling Midget » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:09 pm

I don't want to give too much away, but The Crown of Horns has visited Arelith, so this wouldn't be far fetched at all. Ask around IC. It's a great story.

Depending on which aspect of Myrkul's portfolio you're focusing on, Jergal, Kelemvor, Velsharoon, and Bane could all be suitable stand-ins. Probably others, too.
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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by Jack Oat » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:27 pm

I know some of the old Bhaal-following characters RPd it as Cyric granting them the power because Cyric wouldn't really care that it wasn't in his name, so to speak.

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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by High Primate » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:26 pm

If you want to play a cleric of a dead god, then technically the right way to do this is select no deity. You'll only be able to cast spell of up to and including level 5, I believe. Certain clerics of dead deities become imbued with their power and are able to cast spells of up to 5th level without praying. Otherwise, they are without their former abilities, and rightfully so--their deity is dead.
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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by Rystefn » Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:40 am

Actually, dead gods often have their portfolios picked up by other deities, many of whom steal the prayers to the dead god and continue granting spells in their names. See: Ibrandul
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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by DM_Ironfist » Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:57 am

High Primate wrote:If you want to play a cleric of a dead god, then technically the right way to do this is select no deity. You'll only be able to cast spell of up to and including level 5, I believe. Certain clerics of dead deities become imbued with their power and are able to cast spells of up to 5th level without praying. Otherwise, they are without their former abilities, and rightfully so--their deity is dead.
Once again, if you're going to make statements that appear to be rules and not strictly defined personal opinions, I ask players to back them up with citations from staff members.

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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by CragOneEye » Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:07 am

Jack Oat wrote:I know some of the old Bhaal-following characters RPd it as Cyric granting them the power because Cyric wouldn't really care that it wasn't in his name, so to speak.
More accurately Cyric pretended to be all three of the dreaded three, granting followers of all three clergies powers stealing the portfolios of all three.

He then was able to convert Myrkulites and Bhaalites to his cause as well some Banites.

Banites were the most stubborn to turn and convert out of the three and a lot of them turned to the Bane son instead of Cyric.

Upon Bane's resurection those whom worshiped his son converted back to Bane, as well some Cyric's followers.
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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by High Primate » Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:59 am

DM_Ironfist wrote:
High Primate wrote:If you want to play a cleric of a dead god, then technically the right way to do this is select no deity. You'll only be able to cast spell of up to and including level 5, I believe. Certain clerics of dead deities become imbued with their power and are able to cast spells of up to 5th level without praying. Otherwise, they are without their former abilities, and rightfully so--their deity is dead.
Once again, if you're going to make statements that appear to be rules and not strictly defined personal opinions, I ask players to back them up with citations from staff members.
I wasn't stating that this was a server rule when I said it was technically the right way to do so.
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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by High Primate » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:06 am

I should add that DM Cobra once told me with regard to my Bhaalite character that I shouldn't select a mechanical deity. It was on the old forums though and I can't find it. But rules change!
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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by Lorkas » Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:44 pm

High Primate wrote:I wasn't stating that this was a server rule when I said it was technically the right way to do so.
Regardless of whether or not the way you wrote your opinion made it seem like a rule (note: you don't have to state "this is a server rule" in order for it to seem like you're posting that something is a rule), it's just wrong that selecting no deity is "technically the right way" to do what the OP wants to do. As other said, there are many examples in lore of clerics of dead gods being granted spells by other deities for various reasons, and the server staff haven't made a statement in support of what you're arguing for.

It's just an opinion, and not one backed up by the lore of the setting.

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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by IndifferentPerson » Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:59 pm

DM_Ironfist wrote:Once again, if you're going to make statements that appear to be rules and not strictly defined personal opinions, I ask players to back them up with citations from staff members.
Wouldn't it be more efficient if you specified the correct usage then, if there is any?

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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by DM_Ironfist » Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:25 pm

IndifferentPerson wrote:
DM_Ironfist wrote:Once again, if you're going to make statements that appear to be rules and not strictly defined personal opinions, I ask players to back them up with citations from staff members.
Wouldn't it be more efficient if you specified the correct usage then, if there is any?
As a DM, it's not my place to create server policy only enforce it. I'm currently unaware of any rules in this regard outside of our principal rules and as always judge things on a case by case basis. I personally am fine with this, but I'm not prepared to step up and say 'This is always the way it'll be done.' because that's not my job, and that would be restrictive to you lot and give the impression there's only one right, or one wrong way of doing things.

Have fun. Be nice. Don't be a cheeseball.

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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:32 pm

DM_Ironfist wrote:
IndifferentPerson wrote:
DM_Ironfist wrote:Once again, if you're going to make statements that appear to be rules and not strictly defined personal opinions, I ask players to back them up with citations from staff members.
Wouldn't it be more efficient if you specified the correct usage then, if there is any?
As a DM, it's not my place to create server policy only enforce it. I'm currently unaware of any rules in this regard outside of our principal rules and as always judge things on a case by case basis. I personally am fine with this, but I'm not prepared to step up and say 'This is always the way it'll be done.' because that's not my job, and that would be restrictive to you lot and give the impression there's only one right, or one wrong way of doing things.

Have fun. Be nice. Don't be a cheeseball.
I appreciate the response. :) I can function with this.

I also appreciate all the other feedback. I actually didn't know that bit about Cyric, although I did know gods could get tricksy with the way they grant powers and "grow" in Divinity.
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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by KregorRanger » Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:14 am

Lore wise, they don't gain the divine rank, so long as the dead power is the one getting the worship. They interlope in the hope of eventual conversion to direct worship of said followers.

They can also steal individual aspects of another deity's portfolio by gaining the credit for it from their worshippers, as Cyric did to gain intrigue from Mask, for a time. Cyric is easily one of the worst offenders for gaining worship through counterfeit. From those of Mask and, as detailed above, from followers of the dead three.

Also...

There is nothing putting it out of the realm of possibility that your worship could, in fact, bring a fallen power back from the dead (see Bane). There was another server I played on where a group of players did, in fact, rebirth Leira.

Could the powers of Arelith be persuaded to revive a dead god in our continuity? I suppose that depends on the amount of RP it created.

I'd imagine that, given the current active church faiths, an effort to revive the god of one of Cyric's once-stolen portfolio aspects could result in a (un)holy war of grand proportion.

You would actually be stepping on the toes of multiple faiths now. Seeing as Myrkul's former portfolio is sliced and diced up.

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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:05 pm

Revisiting this question rather than creating a new thread, since it's related.

Based on the fixtures questions and answer thread, supposing I had someone build me an altar, and placed it, and I had them during the renaming process convert it from an Altar of say, Jergal, to an Altar of Myrkul [*Name of Priest Here*].

Speaking from an IC standpoint, how would this be treated? (Again, Myrkul is not in the deity supported list. Would I be permitted to RP as leading services in worship to Myrkul, or would this fall under the WYSIWYG rule as far as other players and the server environment are concerned when actually praying?)
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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by The Rambling Midget » Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:22 pm

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:Speaking from an IC standpoint, how would this be treated? (Again, Myrkul is not in the deity supported list. Would I be permitted to RP as leading services in worship to Myrkul, or would this fall under the WYSIWYG rule as far as other players and the server environment are concerned when actually praying?)
If you're creating RP and making fun for people, don't worry too much about WYSIWYG for an altar. That's a good bend. I'd recommend Kelemvor as a stand-in, since Myrkul was subservient.
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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by DM_Ironfist » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:31 pm

It'd be treated differently by every character depending on their IC perspectives,

Everything from - Eh? Who's this bloke?
To - HAHAHAHA. He's dead. You're stupid.
To - I never realised Myrkul was the god for me.

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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by P Three » Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:26 am

Rystefn wrote:Actually, dead gods often have their portfolios picked up by other deities, many of whom steal the prayers to the dead god and continue granting spells in their names. See: Ibrandul

See: Zinzerena. Lolth axed her, and still grants spells -as- her so her clerics don't actually know she's dead.
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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by Lord_Phoenyx » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:44 am

See also: Eshodow from Chult. Shar killed them and masquerades as them.

With regards to the Myrkul/Kelemvor thing... Kelemvor would not necessarily be the best deity for that. Kelemvor did take over his portfolio, but the differences outweigh that. Myrkul's alignment is off, and he's far more in the Necromantic camp than Kelemvor will ever be. Kelemvor acts as a judge, Myrkul was far more concerned with maintaining his power.

And now I see that they have brought Myrkul back for 5th Ed. FR.... such a bummer. :)

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Re: Concept Screening: Cleric of Myrkul

Post by The Rambling Midget » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:56 am

Lord_Phoenyx wrote:With regards to the Myrkul/Kelemvor thing... Kelemvor would not necessarily be the best deity for that. Kelemvor did take over his portfolio, but the differences outweigh that. Myrkul's alignment is off, and he's far more in the Necromantic camp than Kelemvor will ever be. Kelemvor acts as a judge, Myrkul was far more concerned with maintaining his power.
Yep, you're right. I checked again and the subservience is 5th Ed.
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