Allowed or exploit? Attacking while unarmed to provoke AOO's

[BegoneThoth]

Is this a permitted thing, or an exploit? Get two people, one with lots of sneak attack die, and the other without improved unarmed strike.

Attack someone, unarmed man provokes AOO's, which cause the target to switch to the unarmed man to do the AOO automatically, allowing the sneak attacker to get in a ton of sneaks.

Allowed or exploit?

There are packs of mobs in the UD that do this exact thing.

[PinataPlethora]

Never seen any complaints about it, myself. It's common practice for a pair of Rogues to fight side by side, two against two, and swap targets every round, so that they get sneaks with every attack.

It doesn't sound much different from the effect you'd get by simply guarding the sneaker, at least in PvE.

[liver and bones]

It's definitely an exploit of the mechanics. Not sure if it's permitted here, though.

How it's different than simply guarding someone who's dishing out sneak attacks is at least someone can stop the sneaker from throwing out sneak attacks.

Whoever is forcing you to proc AOO's draws you away, so you're always at a disadvantage especially if the person procing the AOO's has a high AC.

[Freyason]

Well, you can't guard in pvp, is that the issue?

[BegoneThoth]

Never seen any complaints about it, myself. It's common practice for a pair of Rogues to fight side by side, two against two, and swap targets every round, so that they get sneaks with every attack.

It doesn't sound much different from the effect you'd get by simply guarding the sneaker, at least in PvE.

Well, you can't guard in pvp, is that the issue?

It's definitely an exploit of the mechanics. Not sure if it's permitted here, though.

How it's different than simply guarding someone who's dishing out sneak attacks is at least someone can stop the sneaker from throwing out sneak attacks.

Whoever is forcing you to proc AOO's draws you away, so you're always at a disadvantage especially if the person procing the AOO's has a high AC.

I don't quite think you all understand.

3 people;

Punch man who provokes an attack of opportunity every time he attacks.
Assassin man with like 18d6 sneak

vs

Galtry Johnson Paladin of Capitalism.

Galtry isn't dumb and attacks the assassin, however, he then is swung at, and missed, by the punch man which provokes an AAO due to the punch-man not having improved unarmed strike. Because, due to the AOO, he is now facing the punch man for a flurry, the Assassin is able to get several sneak-attacks in, despite the Paladin having no control and no way to stop his character from facing the punch-bait man for AOO's every time he swings.

This is not -guard, this isn't a sneak thing, I observed some enemy packs in the UD that seem specifically made to exploit this AOO attack-change behavior of NWN, and want to know if it's legal to do on players since mobs do it to players.

Because, if so, it's an excellent trick.

[Queen Titania]

Case by Case.

For example, character may legitimately not have gloves but may intend to be brawling another. Rogue buddy steps in. Scenario as above is emulated, but no foul play would be declared.

Versus, someone purposefully trying to do the same above scenario.

Granted, fighting with no weapon and an unarmed attack that provokes Attack of Opportunities is not an ideal way to help anyone, as one attack at sneak attack at 2v1 scenarios is not a very ideal use of a 2v1 scenario versus two people fighting at their best abilities.

[BegoneThoth]

If it's not permitted shall I go find the mobs that exploit this engine tweak and name them? Or is a general description and area name enough to get it fixed? Or should the mobs remain unchanged?

[Lorkas]

Hopefully one day the command to turn off AoOs will resolve this issue. There are more important things calling for the devs' time at the moment, of course.

[Queen Titania]

If it's not permitted shall I go find the mobs that exploit this engine tweak and name them? Or is a general description and area name enough to get it fixed? Or should the mobs remain unchanged?

Mobs are different than players.

I.E., mobs are not subjected to review like this. We're not going to go chastise the mobs for doing this.

Lorkas point is spot on, it's probably something that could be fixed (Given the creatures gloves) when the DEVs have more time. That time is not anytime soon.

[BegoneThoth]

I would just suggest that the mobs in question get improved unarmed strike so the behavior can be avoided.

It's the Ogres in the lowerdark caverns. Maur Diggers I think.

[afreshstart]

This is also a way to die to the sewer rat gang boss, the corridor usually causes the archers to be in melee a range as well as the boss, which can 1 shot most characters at that level with a crit.

[Sab1]

I would say it's an exploit because the players are OOC taking advantage of a mechanic to gain an advantage their chracters would have no clue about. I mean it would seem like an odd strategy for two would be assassins to come up with as a plan. Ok you will use no weapons and just punch that guy with that big sword while I try to stab him. Everytime you punch at him he,for whatever odd reason, will suddenly ignore me(the guy stabbing him in the ribs) and start swinging at you (the guy with no weapon and just swinging your fists like a mad man). But unless devs fix it there probably isn't much that can be done.

[Freyason]

I don't quite think you all understand.

Sure I do, hence comparing this with -guard is not applicable. This works in pvp, -guard doesn't.

[Ebonstar]

there was an old posting years ago that said if you think its an exploit it probably is so report it and dont do it

[Ork]

Eh. I think this is just good tactics. Happens all time time with mobs when they cast spells or fire arrows at point blank.

[Sab1]

The difference is mobs can't control it. As a player you make a conscious effort to intentionally force a AOO knowing the AI will make the target focus on you.

[Dr_Hazard89]

Seems like an exploit to me. AOO off will fix that, I hope, when it gets put in.

[Black Wendigo]

Doing this to a mob seems ok to me, as there are lots of things you can do to NPCs taht you can't, would not or should not do to PCs. DOing this to PCs is IMO an exploit.