Pirates and UD races

[TimeAdept]

If UD races become pirates it should also immediately remove them from being able to take part in all UD politics just like it does for surfacers, so people can't be (outcast) (pirate) or etc and just reap all the benefits of both with none of the downsides.

But I would prefer UD races not be able to use the Pirate system, personally. This is what the UD and Outcast system is for, and why the Dreadnought exists already. I wouldn't be averse to seeing a second free-for-all Warship/Penny Rose style ship added to the Hub, if the Dreadnought isn't enough to service the UD.

[Durvayas]

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Nelanther_Isles

Monster pirates are already an established part of the forgotten realms setting. These islands aren't even far from Arelith, these pirates regularly harrass Amnian shipping traffic, among other boats from the moonshaes, Tethyr, Calimshan, and the Sword Coast. All technically neighbors of the isle of Arelith. There are also monstrous pirates near the crows nest.

If getting pirate tattoos eliminates the ability for a PC(Outcast, monster, or surfacer) to participate in isle politics(including Andunor), I don't see any good reason UD races should be barred from the system.

In fact, a bonus... if the above was true and the UD was able to participate, let pirate ships, and pirate ships only, berth in the gnomish shipyard. If the city of Andunor is truly meant to be like skullport, is there any good reason that that wouldn't be allowed? And also, let the dreadnaught berth at sencliff still.

[Thanatosis]

I like the fact there's a venue for evil RP where only evil surfacers can hang out at, especially since Wharftown usually filled that niche and now it's gone. I think opening it to monsters would diminish that a little bit.

[Dreams]

Let's remember what happened to Wharftown when it became 'Happy place for our UD friends to hang out'.

[Red Ropes]

I like the fact there's a venue for evil RP where only evil surfacers can hang out at, especially since Wharftown usually filled that niche and now it's gone. I think opening it to monsters would diminish that a little bit.

While Nelanther pirates exist we do not need more reasons for UD races to just 'hang out' up top.

Join a crew, be a pirate that way, but it doesn't need to be a system support.

[Beneidalus]

Can't imagine more partiality to surfacers being able to access more of the module than UD'ers, is going to be a very healthy thing, in the long run. They can already go where ever they want, this just grows the disparity.

Guess it'll be a bridge crossed when we get there.

[Nitro]

Has anyone considered that this might, just might be the first step from the devs in giving evil humans someplace else than Andunor to hang out if they want to be openly evil? Something a lot of monster players surely would be all for.

[flower]

Can't imagine more partiality to surfacers being able to access more of the module than UD'ers, is going to be a very healthy thing, in the long run. They can already go where ever they want, this just grows the disparity.

Guess it'll be a bridge crossed when we get there.

Becoming a pirate closes for them features of Anduanor.

Which is, hopefully, downside of it. Unlike being outcast and having access everywhere.

Nitro is right. It is a very good thing evil doers of humans and alike got interesting place to compete in and for, instead everyone just pile up in Andunor. Leaving Andunor for very specific evil factions + monsters, and not just default "all evil doers go there".


Edit: and there is really no reason to get all content of module being accessible by anyone. The game then looses its charm, when one signle person goes from one thing to another able to access anything on server. You want a pirate? Make a new character and enjoy new experience. Why to push your drow into it?

[Durvayas]

Has anyone considered that this might, just might be the first step from the devs in giving evil humans someplace else than Andunor to hang out if they want to be openly evil? Something a lot of monster players surely would be all for.

Well the pirates battled the Amnian navy and cordor before, and Sencliff is an island. I don't see why it couldn't be the evil hub on the surface regardless of the demographics. I think that giving evil surfacers a place to go rather than funneling all the evil PCs on the module into Andunor is a fantastic thing, not least of which because it will bring new trade opportunities, alliances, a new team evil base in the sun, and(likely) a place that eilistrean drow(And other UD exiles that are persona non grata in Andunor) can probably establish themselves(that isn't the arcane tower) if they play their cards right(similar to the promenade temple in skullport).

And to answer your question flower, I'm going to point at Captain Horag the orog and Viktor "Captain Whitebeard" the drow pirate. The fact is that the UD has been very actively involved in piracy on arelith for quite some time, and I don't see any really rational reason they should be excluded from the mechanical options behind making a career out of piracy given their long history of doing so.

[flower]

Drow certainly can be great addition to the pirate crew when cannot stand on the deck during the day (majority of time when sailing) or even leave / board ship without magic during days.

I am certain every reasonable captain would recruit bunch of guys needing special treatment on trips and being very unrealible, willing to stab him any time for dominance in crew lol.

Also the division serves for greater good of server. You want Uders to play in UD not roll character and flee to Sencfliff for cool features.

However yes it should be a normal award perhaps for ud race being able to gain acccess to the Sencliff features (and loose access to the features in Andunor).

[Cerk Evermoore]

This isn't just drow we are talking about, we're talking about ogres gnolls goblins and kobolds whom all have surface tribes.

Doesn't even make sense that piracy discounts Outcasts from Andunor politics. Andunor probably would give you a gold star for giving surfaces a hard time.

[One Two Three Five]

Seems to me like it's supposed to be a competing system that makes you make a hard choice for which route to go, so that there's less 'do everything' characters and more specialized characters. Man anyone remember that Umberlean kobold from back when?

[Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia]

KEEEL HAAUL

That said, re: precedents and reasons and rationale both for and against expanding the piracy system to UDers, it was a conscious design decision on release to keep monster races out of the Articles of Sencliff at this time. Also note that I'm only speaking as a contributor, not a developer/admin: an informed role, not an authoritative one.

We are aware of how awesome a pirate bruiser ogre, keel-hauling kobolds, etc. are, but this release was focused on piracy for surface-going characters. I can't speak to future plans or policy, but I presume they would be more fleshed-out than just flicking a switch and enabling monsters to be pirates and letting it be. You'd need more content and infrastructure to make that sort of addition as robust as it needed to be.

Nothing stops existing Sencliff Pirates from taking on Underdark characters as crew but common sense. If it makes sense and you pull it off, great. Keel Haul is back. He just can't sign the Articles of Sencliff, or own property/lease a ship/use the smuggler network for themselves. Just get brought along as auxiliary crew and brutally murder people.

Or he can commandeer the Dreadnought and start grappling and murdering ships on their own. You know, piracy as before this update.

If there becomes an actual policy ruling, for or against the above statements, I will edit this post correspondingly.

[flower]

This isn't just drow we are talking about, we're talking about ogres gnolls goblins and kobolds whom all have surface tribes.

Doesn't even make sense that piracy discounts Outcasts from Andunor politics. Andunor probably would give you a gold star for giving surfaces a hard time.

It makes very sense from the design purpose of module.

There is not a single reason to squeeze all evil doers into Andunor/Sencliff and this increases the variability other than one singular block of evil characters who all dwell in Andunor and jump aside to Sencliff to board ships for raids.

[Durvayas]

KEEEL HAAUL

That said, re: precedents and reasons and rationale both for and against expanding the piracy system to UDers, it was a conscious design decision on release to keep monster races out of the Articles of Sencliff at this time. Also note that I'm only speaking as a contributor, not a developer/admin: an informed role, not an authoritative one.

We are aware of how awesome a pirate bruiser ogre, keel-hauling kobolds, etc. are, but this release was focused on piracy for surface-going characters. I can't speak to future plans or policy, but I presume they would be more fleshed-out than just flicking a switch and enabling monsters to be pirates and letting it be. You'd need more content and infrastructure to make that sort of addition as robust as it needed to be.

Nothing stops existing Sencliff Pirates from taking on Underdark characters as crew but common sense. If it makes sense and you pull it off, great. Keel Haul is back. He just can't sign the Articles of Sencliff, or own property/lease a ship/use the smuggler network for themselves. Just get brought along as auxiliary crew and brutally murder people.

Or he can commandeer the Dreadnought and start grappling and murdering ships on their own. You know, piracy as before this update.

If there becomes an actual policy ruling, for or against the above statements, I will edit this post correspondingly.

Is there any chance that the UD will get any support for its own pirates in terms of piratey mechanical articles and/or quests and possibly a remodel of the gnomish shipyard? Which could totally be repurposed as berth for UD pirates using the dreadnaught, as its been made abundantly clear that the dev team has no intention of ever making more boats for the UD(rendering the shipyard aspect of the place fairly moot as they don't build anything there anymore). The shipyard area(on the cities and planes side) even has a tavern for very piratelike 'dreadnaught sailors', and a fairly nautical, one might even say piraty, guildhouse.

[Sab1]

Just because I'm a pirate doesn't necessarily mean I want to work with ogres, gnolls and other things with reputations of maybe wishing to eat me. I mean a pirate can be I hate orcs, elves types too. Evil people are usually the quickest to not trust other people or their motives. It's hard to expect an evil person to trust a race that has a reputation of not being very trustful or to find humanoid meat to be tasty. How many captains have suddenly found themselves being betrayed by their own crew?

[Beneidalus]

Odd how often it has to be said, but drow can totally operate in sunlight. The verbatim mechanic is that they simply get 1 round blindness to sudden exposure, and -1 to rolls in a brightly lit setting. No magical handicap necessary. Just a slight change to how you approach your emotes.

Who knows what the futures holds, I suppose, though. Like Durvayas and Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia said, perhaps we must simply look forwards to what other systems are on the horizon

[BegoneThoth]

Odd how often it has to be said, but drow can totally operate in sunlight.

I believe drow hanging out in the sun will catch a DM's attention, as on this server drow are night/ud only.

[flower]

Odd how often it has to be said, but drow can totally operate in sunlight. The verbatim mechanic is that they simply get 1 round blindness to sudden exposure, and -1 to rolls in a brightly lit setting. No magical handicap necessary. Just a slight change to how you approach your emotes.

Who knows what the futures holds, I suppose, though. Like Durvayas and Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia said, perhaps we must simply look forwards to what other systems are on the horizon

Odd how often we must repeat that the Team policy for the Drow is you cannot operate during day light regardless the penalties in the lore.

[Beneidalus]

Ya'll keep perpetrating that, but can I get a link of that being official policy?

Or even just a Dev commenting on the thread. Can't say I've ever seen one speak towards that end, any time this topic has come up.

Especially considering my own playtime has never suggested it. Been up top plenty of times as my drow.

[Intrepid42]

can I get a link of that being official policy?

Admin post located as per request:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8569

[Nitro]

And, from the definitive Drow policy by the great triple J himself that's been in there since pretty much day one of Drow being enabled on Arelith:

Drow are free to visit and raid the Surface, so long as incursions are roleplayed and natural weaknesses are not ignored for convenience. (e.g. Light aversion, unfamiliarity with open space, etc...)

[Beneidalus]

Both those links, of special consideration being the one by the present admin team, compliment what I've said. Not counteract.

[BegoneThoth]

Ping a DM then about surface sunlight rp as a Drow, if one isn't already swooping in to correct you.

[flower]

Both those links, of special consideration being the one by the present admin team, compliment what I've said. Not counteract.

I can tell you my drow Eilistreen got repeated damage done onto her plus blindness enforced by DM.

It was a hilarious moment, 1 IG hour prior sun light when i delayed myself to kill 3 npcs on the road (cause good aligment, to protect travellers) like 2 -3 screens away from her hideout. Where she was headed, quite pointless act but it clearly ilustrates the stance towards it.

There were some people who did not bother a lot and surfacers run into them in the full noon in the day light and i spent IG like an irl hour being questioned how is possible drow run in day light

There are some DMs, who are more benevolent, like letting you slip around in very early morning or in very late afternoon and then there are dms who will push hurt button even before sun light.