Arelith

...most of my stuff got jacked (and fixtures bashed, of course), over the course of a couple days with no 'thief rp' put in my direction to ever figure out what happened.

I wonder if Devs have ever explored the idea of a mechanic that would automatically leave a clue after a door has been picked/bashed.

Something like footprints or a note that a character with high enough Search/Spot would be able to gain information, similar to how Examine, -investigate or -track functions work.

Bran Bree wrote:I wonder if Devs have ever explored the idea of a mechanic that would automatically leave a clue after a door has been picked/bashed.

Yeah, they have that. It's a 127DC trap. The clue is a corpse.

most have raised and left before anyone notices.

Well bashed the clue should be a missing door, I am guessing a door doesn't come back until reset.

As for picking locks I would say if someone skilled enough to get a dc 90 or so lock, they should be good enough not to leave a trace. if you're dedicated enough to start taking epic skill focus picklock then I would say you are a true master and deserve not to leave a trace.

PinataPlethora wrote:Yeah, they have that. It's a 127DC trap. The clue is a corpse.

lmao

This might be tangential, but there should be higher taxes when you get to 100+ Open Lock DC. Considerably higher. And it should clearer to new quarter owners that decreasing your security can dramatically decrease your rent.

This might be an additional deterrent, or it might not have impact. I'm not sure.

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:This might be tangential, but there should be higher taxes when you get to 100+ Open Lock DC. Considerably higher. And it should clearer to new quarter owners that decreasing your security can dramatically decrease your rent.

This might be an additional deterrent, or it might not have impact. I'm not sure.

Deterrent to what? I don't think not being able to break into every house takes a lot away from the server. Not sure the original post was for DC127 locks and traps need to be reduced.

I think, in any combination of, these would be nice possible adjustments, not all of these about doors:

1: Locks above X Threshould should accumulate more tax.
2: Door Strength above X Threshold should accumulate more tax.
3: Purchasing a new home should reset the threshold to X number. (Given the pointlessness of one, this number could be given a minimum).
2: Guild houses with available rooms should accumulate MUCH more tax.
3: Guild houses with purchased rooms rent should go to the owner.
4: Base prices of prestigious homes should go up.
5: Some support of a robbery system to facilitate more Enforcers vs. Criminal Avenues. Cordor has unfinished potential things, and the night/day NPC system is nice potential.
Side note: If you do lower your lock and your fixtures are bashed/all items stolen, you should report it, and have heart to not adjust your play for one bad sport. It's like PvPing every pickpocket after one or two just run after doing it without stopping to make RP out of it.

Some of these to work well require good faith from both sides. From Criminals, mostly respecting the rules, and trying to make a narrative out of it. And from non-criminals, facilitating the chance.

When remaking Cordor (and a lesser extent Andunor) I tried to add a lot of NPC locations that could be robbed, in Cordor this was to be supported with a system of 'alarms' and 'guard alerts' which was sadly never completed. There is definitely room for more of this.

I'm also not a fan of the DC127 locks, and feel realistically the maximum should be far lower. The problem is of course - player behaviour. Some thieves wil do so responsibly while others most certainly won't. The further issue here is even when thieves are keeping it 'light' they'll still come in for a lot of OOC grief/harassment for even going down this route (pickpockets have the same problem, as do highwaymen). Being a criminal is really tough on Arelith, and can take nerves of steel.

The earlier point is true though; it is far easier to use strength to break into quarters. On one of my orcish characters I routinely forced doors, and had the hit points to handle the damage from traps. In cities I would succeed on maybe20-30% of quarters. There's no way a skilled thief is going to get anywhere near that rate of success.

Off the top of my head I only have one suggestion really. That we massively lower the max DC, but script in the 24 robbery rule to the door itself, an automatic failure, with a message along the lines of 'You are only permitted to break into a player quarter once every 24 hours'

That will still lead to issues of course, but that's probably better than the current sitation.

I agree entirely, please do this Irongron!

DM Titania wrote:I think, in any combination of, these would be nice possible adjustments, not all of these about doors:

-snip-
3: Guild houses with purchased rooms rent should go to the owner.
-snip

It's been a long-Snuggybear time since I owned a guildhouse, but this was the case when I did RL years ago.

I've always been of the mind that forcing doors (through lockpick, rather than strength) should be easy (or not absurdly hard at least), but the quarter chests should have be locked with a very high DC.

This would allow more RP than otherwise, for good or ill.

Druid's are the masters of lockpicking; despite not being able to lock pick. A red dragon fully buffed will tear down a lot of things, or a totem shape!

Personally I feel that the high lock DC is very necessary as the system is right now, however some changes could facilitate a more healthy thievery system - and would cause less 'RP gating'.

Quarter chests could have a similar dialogue as the doors. They have a separate lock/trap strength. Separate keys handed out for their use and a separate tax placed. (Quarter entry DC's could then be lowered to more reasonable levels, but the integrity of player storage can be maintained)

As the above, aside from Quarter Chests have a lower DC and a treasure storage system is introduced at your local bank. Said system is expensive, but very well protected - likely only affordable by active factions.

Instead of just lock DC's and door strength to get past, there could be options for other security features which could be looted, bought, crafted, etc. Some could even be tied to the noble background, some to whether you're a council member etc..

So depending on the quarter, a rogue will need a group to pull off an effective heist. (This moves away from the quite binary system that we have at the moment)

For example:

NPC guards (Hired mercenaries / militia, Bought/Found/Crafted golems, Tamed Animals) - All manner of things which would attack an intruder.
Monitoring... Penguin (In various flavours of invisible or stealth ability and spot) - Would record details of visitors. Even when destroyed it could leave a varying amount of trace evidence, unless a skilled person disabled it or cleaned up the mess. Spot could be vs disguise checks.
Alarms - Which if set off could alert NPC Guards (Which might wait outside the building) / Owner / PC Guards / Faction members. To various degrees based on the alarm.

Of course these will all come with an upkeep cost.

It'd add a lot more involvement, for example it would be very advantageous to scope out a quarter before burgling it. Plus there'd always be some form of risk involved!

(As a shameless plug for rogues, they could also receive some skill bonuses based on rogue level - so they'd be more skillful than clerics or bards)

Edit:

Hell you could even have a CCTV system. You could lug around a special crystal ball which lets you scry your quarter.

What about item storage banks where you can store - lets say up to 3-5 items? Those banks are save but cost some extra coins.
That way you could prevent most valuable but heavy items (xx stack of gold ingots, or even adamantine) to be stolen.
It would make theft on quarters less dramatic.

EDIT: Wrote at the same time as Sockss

nobs3 wrote:What about item storage banks where you can store - lets say up to 3-5 items? Those banks are save but cost some extra coins.
That way you could prevent most valuable but heavy items (xx stack of gold ingots, or even adamantine) to be stolen.
It would make theft on quarters less dramatic.

EDIT: Wrote at the same time as Sockss

Great minds!

I really like the idea of a safety box/bank storage idea, same amount as a chest for amount of storage but more expensive to rent/month with the same rules, only 1 allowed per player, so either own it or a full quarters. I would think there are many players that don't really need a full quarters but struggle with items they own but can't cart around everywhere with them.

I kind of disagree with this safety, the problem with robbery is things are too safe.

Losing something is a momentous event, IMO, that is a nice story point. I know some are more attached to items than others though.

Plus the most valuable items you can always just keep on your person.

If Valor Were Inches wrote:I kind of disagree with this safety, the problem with robbery is things are too safe.

Losing something is a momentous event, IMO, that is a nice story point. I know some are more attached to items than others though.

Plus the most valuable items you can always just keep on your person.

Yes, let me keep a thousand pound stack of adamantite bars on my wizard with 10 STR. Or 99 rubies in convenient pickpocket range for any rogue who happens by me.

for the rubies..gem bag....for the addy, well, honestly...that's the risk you take.

With artifact changes I don't even know if you can hit 127 lock picking atm.

You can't.

I think anything over 70, is really just overkill....you need to be devoted to locks and traps for that as is.

33+ ehhhhhhh 8 dex mod+13 trickery domain+8 bard song+20 roll+13 focuses+3 skill gloves+4 dungeon cloak+14ish assorted other gear... 116? I'm probably missing something. Guess not!

Why only 8 dex mod?

20 roll +33 skill +14 dex +13 trickery +8 bard +13 foci +3 gloves +4 cloak +6 ring x2+14 (+2 on boots/belt/amulet/helmet/armor/weapon x2) = 128

I don't THINK I ran into the +50 skill cap, but I'm not 100% sure on what counts for it.

I assumed no one would play a 26 cleric with a dex base, honestly.