Becoming an outcast

[azrael_athing]

Becoming an outcast, is a thing.

My question is actualy the other way around, is there in-game mechanics do to the switch the other way around?

So... is there a way of rectifying being an outcast?

[DarkDreamer]

None at the moment....wish their was.

[Durvayas]

If there was, people would become outcasts for the grinding and PvP perks(hub portal use, mostly), stay in the UD for a little while, and then return to the surface. There would still be some real outcasts, but the system would be abused for sure.

[DarkDreamer]

Thats where you make it MASSIVELY expensive to remove....its 100k to get the status...make it 1m to remove the status..You wanna have your record erased? be prepared to pay out the Snuggybear.

[Lorkas]

If it's gonna be removable at all, personally I'd suggest it not be a matter of GP, but something that has to be earned through character actions. Whether through a quest line like the slave escape thing, or through DMs granting removal of the outcast status through monitoring RP or something.

If we do want it to be tied to GP, then perhaps tie it to paying for slaves to be released from the slavery system (releasing X slaves to build up a better reputation). That's makes it so that there can be some RP consequences for the actions--you'd have to RP with slaves to set up the release in the first place, and it gives the characters who support the slavery system a chance to learn about the character's actions and react to them.

[DarkDreamer]

I would be for the quest line...but dead against DM monitoring, DMs cannot be everywhere, its hard as hell for them to mind everyone for RPR bumps. Nevermind trying to keep them tied down to remove outcast status. Removing the Outcast system, the reason I suggested it that way would ICly be along the lines of, it costs so much because the guild has to hire specialists to go in and remove any proof of you being an outcast, no small thing, but yes, Quests for sure.

[The GrumpyCat]

I'm unconvinced. I kind of like that it is Perminent. Actions have consquences, and outcast isn't just 'Evil' it's 'worst of the worst.' It's someone who's presumably done something so bad in the past that society, which suffers Banites, Necromancers, Infernalists, ect - has gone, 'Holy hell! Dude that's a step wayyy to far!'

Doesn't seem right that it should be something undoable.

[DarkDreamer]

The fun part of fantasy Grumpy, is that like real life, you can pay or do things that could see such horrible records....vanish....by that standing, if I have to pay to become an outcast, I should be able to pay much more handsomely to not be.

[The GrumpyCat]

I agree but whilst an amount of that is fine, go too far and you end up with a situation where nothing matters, which in turn impacts the importance of things that the player does. If you can do everything, then nothing is of any importance or weight.

[DarkDreamer]

thus why I agree, it shouldnt be trivial to undo, even if it costs 3m, AND a quest...thats not trivial, but it should exist...also if you undo it, you cannot take it again.

[Twohand]

As someone playing an Outcast on the "road to redemption", trying to revert your status in society can open some quite interesting and engaging RP opportunities if you put your mind and effort into it, and so far I'm enjoying the experience a lot, but I know that I'm rowing against the tide here. But well, in the end what matters is the journey, not the destination, right?

[The_Queen~s_Rebuke]

I agree with Lorkas, here. We have a series of quests to remove one type of tag that's relatively difficult - I think with another series of quests that should be REALLY difficult and incorporate writs to prove your innocence (maybe a majority pardon by most surface settlements) should do away with outcast, if they really want to try for it.

Basically, make it possible, but an understandable pain, to highlight how difficult redemption is, but also address the concerns of bouncing back from being an Outcast.

[Durvayas]

Thats where you make it MASSIVELY expensive to remove....its 100k to get the status...make it 1m to remove the status..You wanna have your record erased? be prepared to pay out the Snuggybear.

I know people who can grind 100k in under a day easy. Hell... half a day. The cost would have to be a million GP or more to be 'serious'

[Xanos950]

If playing an Outcast is intended to be worst than evil aka. "Literally worse than hitler-status". Then maybe remove being able to pay for being an outcast to begin with. No removal either. You're worse than evil, no redemption for you.

Throw it behind a reward-wall, like a minor one or whatever. Also solves the underdark being overrun with these so ungodly evil and wicked characters and focuses more on real monsters. Everyone keeps complaining about it anyway.

[DarkDreamer]

@Durvayas - Reread my post....I said at least 1m, it shouldn't be easy...

[ForgottenBhaal]

I have troubles with even earnin 10 K in a day. Dont punish the casuals for the hardcore grinders habits.

[The GrumpyCat]

To be fair, a high paywall is hardly a 'punishment' in this case. It's not like the outcast status is 'forced' on anyone. If you don't want your character to be an outcast well... don't pick outcast?

I suppose if there quest was very hard, (e.g. maybe writs from ALL the surface settlment leaders + a healthy fine) then it'd be reasonable. But it really should be something very difficult and very time consuming and yes, possibly very expensive.

[BegoneThoth]

I don't see an epic one time quest to redeem is out of line given other things.

It can only be done once, is extremely involved and impossible to solo, and make it prohibitively expensive, requiring a flat donation of 1,000,000 to whatever city sponsored you, in addition to custom quest only monsters.

There's content like this for other things, don't see why a one-shot redemption quest is bad.

Side note; I hate redemption arcs but still think we need something like this.

[azrael_athing]

Playing a character that has recently been bannished by the following places:

Brogendenstein, with Dark Spire Mountains
Burrowhome with Bendir Dale and Grayhammer
Myon with Arelith Forest
and Guldorand with Skull Crags (+Darrowdeep).

My character feels rather much like an outcast weither I take the outcast route or not. Which was the root of the question, as taking the Outcastgig on would be an improvement to my gameplay right now, but it comes with a great limitation which in current state, can not be revoked. As I rather would like my character to be able to redeam himself later on I guess I'll just have to use the Outpost Portal untill that day then.

That said, I personaly would favor the following, before any set amount of gold.

I agree with Lorkas, here. We have a series of quests to remove one type of tag that's relatively difficult - I think with another series of quests that should be REALLY difficult and incorporate writs to prove your innocence (maybe a majority pardon by most surface settlements) should do away with outcast, if they really want to try for it.

Basically, make it possible, but an understandable pain, to highlight how difficult redemption is, but also address the concerns of bouncing back from being an Outcast.

[Harasha]

I would point out, outcasts are barely chastised on the surface unless they do something to deserve it. They can freely wander into Cordor and other settlements like anyone else and only have a few drawbacks. So if there is going to be a way to buy yourself out of outcast status, maybe they should be made to feel more like outcasts in the first place.

This is not a complaint about anyone's RP, by the way, it's just seems to be where we are at generally.

[DarkDreamer]

Namely because we cant OOCly tell their outcasts, so cant act on it.

[Harasha]

Right, and I wouldn't force the players to RP anything, but something could be done to make it more difficult for an outcast. Like non-shady surface settlement merchants wouldn't sell to them and city gates won't open unless they pass a disguise check, and the Cordor portal destination is off limits. No kill scripts though, I wouldn't go that far..

[Xanos950]

Namely because we cant OOCly tell their outcasts, so cant act on it.

That's the prime issue with Outcast status.

They's supposed to be comparable to demons in what heinous atrocities they "apparently" committed. But then nothing ever comes of it. No npc other than boat travel are affected by it. It's the go-to route if you want the underdark-only portals that no other surfacer can get with as few of a drawback as possible.

[azrael_athing]

The Outcast status affects moderately the character. Outcasts start in the city of Andunor in the Underdark and have free access to the main portal, in addition of being fluent in Undercommon, however, they have two restrictions to consider: they cannot become citizens in any surface settlements, and thus they are unable to vote, and neither may they own any property (quarters, guildhouses, shops, boats). They may, however, own quarters and any other form of property in the wilderness.

Outcast characters may find themselves restricted and rejected from using other services that are normally available to other characters in the surface.

There is restrictions to the Outcast.

[DarkDreamer]

I think Outcast should be in Char description just like Radiant Heart is.