Is there a point to corpse bashing?

[Black Wendigo]

Resurrection during a group fight being ok is a shadow rule. Since when is combat rez during group PVP any different from any other form of PVP. IF you need to res during PVE that's different and perhaps that is where people got the idea that PVP combat rezzing was OK.

[Improv]

If it's against the rules it's against the rules, that's fine and won't argue that, but it's not an intuitive rule (most rpg or MMO games and even NWN servers would let you raise a fallen party member in PVP, that's one of the main tools in the cleric arsenal) nor is it one clearly stated anywhere I've seen. Buried in the forums somewhere doesn't count. There's a bit of a difference between a shadow rule and a misconception based on common sense or prior experience in most other games.

[Lorkas]

The rule is clearly stated on the front page: if someone is killed in PvP, no interaction for 24 hours with those they fought.

For what it's worth, I'd personally argue it should be allowed, but the rules forbid it, as they are written (the point about the forums was just to point out that the rule has been clarified). Maybe a suggestion thread to modify the rules would be suitable if anyone cares deeply about it.

[Improv]

That's not nearly as clear as you say. I've read that rule but from years of gaming and playing MMOs and D&D I'd still assume a combat raise during the same encounter or battle would mean the character is revived and not truly "killed." But I'm not arguing for it to be allowed (I guess)

[Black Wendigo]

Arelith is not an MMO or a MOBA. The rules are actually clear. It is players who wish the rules to be different who are confusing matters. The only reason to want this is if one has got it in their heads that PVP is a contest that needs to be "won". As opposed to a tool for RP.

[Dr_Hazard89]

Pretty sure combat-ressing is against the rules. I don't really care either way, if someone wants to do that just PM me first so we can screenshot both parties agreeing to it.

If I corpse bash it's usually an IC decision and not an OOC one. Either my character really wants that head, or just really wants to smoosh your remains to make your revival that much more difficult/less likely.

[Sab1]

Well the big difference is after pvp and you rez we know 24hr rule, since fight was over. But I can see if fight is still going on and someone gives you a rez, how many might think it's ok to rejoin. The big thing to me is you might not want to get involved in the fight again, but once you're alive and healed the enemy might not be aware that you died and come after you again anyway.

[Improv]

Arelith is not an MMO or a MOBA. The rules are actually clear. It is players who wish the rules to be different who are confusing matters. The only reason to want this is if one has got it in their heads that PVP is a contest that needs to be "won". As opposed to a tool for RP.

Arelith IS a mini-morpg, one that happens to hit the r.p.g. more than most, and clerics have a spell that is explicitly meant to raise a fallen party member mid-combat. If they are going to be in trouble for using it in PvP this needs to be a clear rule. Otherwise it reads to many of us that no interaction is allowed after the PvP event is complete.

I don't wish it differently, I just don't want to be scolded by a DM for not knowing a house rule.

[Black Wendigo]

And MMO and an MORPG are very different. MMOs are not built for actual role play. I"ve been on plenty and not once did I see anyone doing anything other that grinding and metagaming. No characterizations. No stories. The only interactions are OOC. IS this Arelith? Is this what people expect from an MORPG? If you want to play on an MMO that's fine with me, but please let's not confuse that with role playing the way the MMOs want.

Up until recently, I had always thought people play on Arelith to get AWAY from the MMO paradigm. THat's why I've stayed all these years. Anima and Arelith split because of the difference between wanting an MORPG and wanting and action based RPG. Rezzing people in the middle of combat is something one would do on an action RPG.

Don't get me wrong. I do not wish to be an RP Natzi or chide people. I play plenty of action games and all manner of RPG subgendre. I don't want to sound like I'm harshing on the casual approach to RPGs that many games have.

But you know. If you try to see a video game as something other than what it is, you're going to get distoerted expactations about what it should be.

[Improv]

K.

I just hope the takeaway here is that some otherwise law abiding players, probably more recent arrivals than old timers, simply don't know raising while still engaged in PVP is against the rules. I think it should be spelled out more clearly especially since there will probably be a wave of new arrivals soon.

[BegoneThoth]

Yeah got a confirmation from DM's that you cannot combat rez. If you die stay dead.

[Lorkas]

Yeah got a confirmation from DM's that you cannot combat rez. If you die stay dead.

Just to clarify, this applies to PvP but not PvM (as I understand it). You can res during a boss fight or something if someone falls, and they can rejoin the fight if they want. I'd send a tell though, asking if they're okay with raising them.

[BegoneThoth]

Yeah I meant pvp.

[Black Wendigo]

PVM anything goes more or less. Because NPCS don't have feelings so who cares about them?

[The GrumpyCat]

PvP - 24 hour rules apply
PvE - Raise as you wish
PvE - DM Event- most of the time I find it bad form if I throw a boss monster down, and everyone keeps raising each other mid fight. In between fights? Yeah sure - as you want. But mid fight it's a bit cringe worthy.
PvP Mass Fights - Here it gets... murky. So much so I don't even want to make a solid ruling on it here, beyond geneally just stick to the 24 hour rule to be on the safe side. If you die in a fight, don't get raised then immedatly attack again. If you raised by someone else - don't seek out your attackers. Basicaly - once you die in pvp, if you get raised by anyone, it's generally best to remove yourself from the presence of those who attacked you, unless they and you have waived the 24 hour rule.

To touch on the centeral point of the topic again.

There's going to be times when your you, or your enemies, don't want to see your body raised. Not out of meaness, but there just comes a point where a character has done so much, other characters would have no desire at all to see him or her live. That's fine.
When that happens, currently they have an option to do an action that specificaly lets a player know that their body is beyond ressurection.
Without this, the player would just be standing around the fugue, unsure what to do, wondering if they're going to be raised by their enemies, or if a friend will grab their body, or stuff like that.
I'm not very fond of Bashing, I am not sure I've even ever done it myself, and it is a last resort in a conflict, imo. But it is is still a resort and a useful option to have.

[Black Wendigo]

I'm not fond of bashing but on some occasions I can even see that rp requiring it. This would be especially true for evil or monster races/chars whom it would be in thier char to eat corpses. Since we can't do that as a mechanic (and I would not want it , corpse bashing is an option.

As to why it's there to begin with? Maybe because no one has time or the iclination to disable it or something. Or maybe it'sa non issue. At any rate it is part of the game, so I try not to get upset if it happens to me.

[flower]

You type about being raised but there is different top tier spell called ressurection givin full restoration to life.

If you cant use it in pvp or quests then give it different effect or it is just another useless spell.

[FrozenSolid]

Heh I just try to think about how gruesome an actual deceration of a corpse is and try to decide if my character can stomach something like bashing. Or if I'm bashed I try to wrap my head around how awful that is. Sorta makes my stomach turn in knots, i guess that helps add realism to actions.

Being alive one moment then reduced to a corpse of broken flesh and bone... It's messy, savage, and vile.

I think that I care lesss about being corpse bashed and more that the weight of doing it isn't truly felt or appreciated and sometimes it happens casually and has little impact. As an action you just click and bash but thinking about it from an rp sense it's pretty brutal and adds greater weight.

[Xanos950]

most people just rp it as chopping the head off so the body is pretty much fine. but up to perspective i guess

[One Two Three Five]

The item is specifically a skull, which is (I assume) a difficult object to cleanly pop out of a body.

[Black Wendigo]

You can certainly use raise dead and resurrection spells after PVP. What you can't do is get brought back to life and then rejoin the same battle or (possibly) the same quest. I suppose you -could get brought back to life during a group PVP and then go somewhere else, but this in general does not work out in my experience. Every time I or someone gets brought back during PVP they just get re-killed by the opposing group, without regard to the rules. So in general I"d avoid getting brought back at least until after the PVP is done (and then going elsewhere).

[BegoneThoth]

are they allowed to kill you again if you are resurrected? seems like a violation of the 24 hour rule.

[Gods_Kill_People]

its more a caught up in the moment thing that not everyone realizes you were PVP'd and kills them to get them down.

[BegoneThoth]

i was mentioning it to illustrate how silly i think the combat rez ruling is, in relation to group pvp where it has mechanical counters in both bashing and corpse jacking.

as well as the fact that you can't control when you are rezzed, so if someone stealth resurrections you and you appear next to a hostile you may attack them w/o even being loaded in, and violate the 24 hour rule according to every combat log everyone sees.

think there should be an exception for group pvp assuming the fight can be reasonably considered to be still going on.

[flower]

Also is why cleric has full ressurection spell in spellbook. To be used in combat to bring back fallen.