Orog equipment

[Terenfel]

how "good" is the new Orog Equipment, i cant seem to find the propetises for it anywhere?

[Lorkas]

Orog heavy sword (greatsword):


Orog bastard sword:


Orog full plate armor:

[Seekeepeek]

Orog-Specific Armaments: This martial race now produces several unique craftable items, including Orog Battle Armor (Full Plate), Orog Heavy Sword (Greatsword), and the Orog Bastard Sword (Bastard Sword). These armaments were designed with Orogs in mind, and will be much less effective when wielded by other races.

it's my understanding from the fat text that if say a human use it, then it's weaker then what's posted above. but maybe iam wrong?

[Lorkas]

Yea, if it has any specifically scripted properties, those won't show up in the "Preview properties" tab.

[Kirito]

NONE of the properties will show if someone other than an orog wears them. It'll just be a mundane sword/armour

[Opustus]

;_; So perty. How does it interact with enchanting?

[Kirito]

Assuming the item was set up correctly it should always be the value of when it has the properties (ie 5% non savable for the orog ones and thieves gloves are set at around 8000 base value)

Any property (that isn't already on the item) will stay regardless of who equips it.

E.g. if you 5% 1d4 damage to the orog heavy sword it will always have that regardless who wields it.

If you apply keen to it then that would be stripped when equipped by a non orog

[Giftstoff]

NONE of the properties will show if someone other than an orog wears them. It'll just be a mundane sword/armour

Why is this a thing? We already have a good system in place for racial only weapons, where others who want to use them need to put 50-60 into UMD.

Having a system that deletes the properties if anyone else handles them makes no sense OOC or IC.

Adding any items only usable by a tiny percentage of players just seems like a waste of resources and time.

[Ork]

To encourage diversity. Long live the Orog empire!

[Opustus]

Gifstoff: I understood that the item doesn't turn permanently mundane, only that the bonuses don't apply unless the item is wielded by an orog. An orog "activates" the weapon.

I guess it's less about using a magic device than about having the Orog martial art and craftsmanship passed on as tradition, which also calls for the Orog physique. I'd think of it more as a racial bonus unique to the race.

GOROSH kat-mu-da GOROSH kat-mu-da! *orog army approaching*

[Giftstoff]

There are a plethora of ways to make a species more attractive and mechanically viable. I would not consider adding a free keened master damask sword into that. The war cry ability for gnolls is a great example of this.

This also pigeonholes Orog players into going for either greatsword or bastard sword in order to stay "relevant" in the current game situation.

A buff across the orog racial traits wouldnt bump up the new bar of adding +4 enhanced, keen, +damage attribute weapons to all the species that seem to be suffering behind the still rediculous human wm meta that all the current balance seems to revolve around.

[Iceborn]

Just to point, it seems that the only two weapons that are available to orogs are either the greatsword (which most people will agree, two-handed is generally weaker than using a shield) and the bastard sword (which is a great weapon, but requires an extra feat to use).

What I don't see myself is why these buffs have to be exclusive of the orogs, which are already a rather powerful race. We have the UMD system for racial-exclusive and that kind of stuff. I don't see why not use that.

[Giftstoff]

Why not instead give Orogs a +2 damage to whatever weapon they want to use? Piggyback off the fighter script perhaps?

[yellowcateyes]

Similar arguments could be made against all the racial weapons currently in play. (Moonblade, etc.) The Orog weaponry simply carries on in the same vein.

In regard to the special script, Kirito has been working on some infrastructure for bonded equipment. Orog specialty gear crafted for Orogs alone was seen as a good chance to test this infrastructure for further development.

[Tarkus the dog]

Orogs are not powerful.

With these changes orogs are not going to get any more powerful either simply because you need to work your Snuggybear to get all of those items made ( that have a huge material requirement, might I add. Orog armor is 16 coal, 6 addy, 4 mithril and 4 steel ingots. The weapons require mithril dust ). It's a buff to dedicated orog players rather than a "we made it so that orogs wreck shit now" kind of thing going on. Don't forget that orogs are 2 ECL race. You're forced to have +4 STR, -2 DEX, -2 WIS, +2 CHA and this greatly limits what build options you can go for. They are good blackguards, decent weaponmasters and awful barbarians ( unless you go two-handed, making this new greatsword more than welcome ).

What about dwarves? They get 2 CON on top of the two gifts that you get to select, but nobody is mentioning them. If orogs are indeed powerful then these guys are gods on earth. Especially if you select dwarf as your base race when going tiefling/aasimar.

Whatever it's worth, I think this update is entirely seemly and I wouldn't change a thing about it except maybe reduce the material requirement on that orog battle armor since there are other armour pieces ( templar armour ) that have bigger gp value but much lesser material requirement. As for your "Why not UMD" question - Ork answered that.

[Giftstoff]

Similar arguments could be made against all the racial weapons currently in play. (Moonblade, etc.) The Orog weaponry simply carries on in the same vein.

In regard to the special script, Kirito has been working on some infrastructure for bonded equipment. Orog specialty gear crafted for Orogs alone was seen as a good chance to test this infrastructure for further development.

I don't think Moonblades were a good choice either, but I thought it was a one off addition and didnt mention it at the time. Now that it seems to be the standard, im speaking out.

This is not a script I feel is in a healthy direction at all. It incentives a "If you don't use this weapon you'll be worse off than everyone else of your species."

Orogs are not powerful.

With these changes orogs are not going to get any more powerful either simply because you need to work your Snuggybear to get all of those items made ( that have a huge material requirement, might I add. Orog armor is 16 coal, 6 addy, 4 mithril and 4 steel ingots. The weapons require mithril dust ). It's a buff to dedicated orog players rather than a "we made it so that orogs wreck shit now" kind of thing going on. Don't forget that orogs are 2 ECL race. You're forced to have +4 STR, -2 DEX, -2 WIS, +2 CHA and this greatly limits what build options you can go for. They are good blackguards, decent weaponmasters and awful barbarians ( unless you go two-handed, making this new greatsword more than welcome ).

What about dwarves? They get 2 CON on top of the two gifts that you get to select, but nobody is mentioning them. If orogs are indeed powerful then these guys are gods on earth. Especially if you select dwarf as your base race when going tiefling/aasimar.

Whatever it's worth, I think this update is entirely seemly and I wouldn't change a thing about it except maybe reduce the material requirement on that orog battle armor since there are other armour pieces ( templar armour ) that have bigger gp value but much lesser material requirement. As for your "Why not UMD" question - Ork answered that.

This is yet another problem with this. Increasing the grind of the server to have the best stuff. Not a small increase either. 6 addy is nearly as bad as 5 leaves of the dreaming tree. Both require a lot of dependence on RNG to find what you need. We're moving toward MMO, where you spend dozens of hours to get a single item.

I didnt mention dwarves because a +2 to strength isnt forcing all dwarf players to use 2 weapons, or increasing the aforementioned grind. Im not arguing that buffing orogs is bad, or that these weapons will make Orogs the new power class. Im arguing about the way that their buff was put in.

[Dorkas]

But wasn't there just an update for dwarves, allowing them easier access to a super strong, dwarf only waraxe? How come they're exempt from the "If you don't use this weapon you'll be worse off than everyone else of your species" rule, but orogs are somehow forced to use these new weapons? I don't get what your saying.

I like the update. If anything it creates more variety, not less, since they're not scimitars or rapiers.

[Giftstoff]

But wasn't there just an update for dwarves, allowing them easier access to a super strong, dwarf only waraxe? How come they're exempt from the "If you don't use this weapon you'll be worse off than everyone else of your species" rule, but orogs are somehow forced to use these new weapons? I don't get what your saying.

I like the update. If anything it creates more variety, not less, since they're not scimitars or rapiers.

See my above mention of moonblades and hoping this wouldnt become the standard.

As for more variety, it does not. Now instead of scimitars and rapiers, you'll have only bastard sword and greatsword.

[Dorkas]

Nah, I don't those will never be replaced so easily. Taking greatsword limits your ac to where you're useless alone, and not every build is willing to go for the exotic feat. Heck, some ppl just love scimmys too much to ever betray them.

Like Tarkus said, all of this new stuff is challenging to make and to get the supplies for; I don't think I've found mithril dust on any of my characters so far, and I'm a cheap scrub who refuses to buy it for so much in a shop. I think they're cool.

[yellowcateyes]

See my above mention of moonblades and hoping this wouldnt become the standard.

http://wiki.arelith.com/Forging:_Special_weapons

It is already a lengthy list, and the addition of orog craftables are an odd point at which to notice the trend.

Regardless, if you feel the established pattern of race-specific weaponry is not a good one, feel free to post an extended explanation and proposal for alternatives in Suggestion Box / Feedback.

This is the Q&A forum, after all, and the OP's question has been answered.

[Kirito]

Why is this a thing? We already have a good system in place for racial only weapons, where others who want to use them need to put 50-60 into UMD.

Having a system that deletes the properties if anyone else handles them makes no sense OOC or IC.

Adding any items only usable by a tiny percentage of players just seems like a waste of resources and time.

For several reasons.
Firstly, we don't have a good racial system. If you want gnoll only you have to select half orc, which opens it up to... half orc and orog etc.

Similarly, if you want spellsword only you have to select wizard... which opens it up to wizards and shadow mages.

Equipment can't be balanced for one path or race using the basic NWN functionality because of everything else we've done.

The system gives us complete control over it. We could even limit it to be useable by a single PC character if we wanted. Have time released abilities and more still.

With the orog weapons the more behind them is that they are so big and heavy other puny races cannot wield them. UMD isn't going to make you stronger. (Yes, you could say that given that logic there should be a minimum strength requirement instead - bring that up with Yellowcateyes in the suggestion forum - it's certainly doable!)

[flower]

I am maybe missing why to support that power creek by boosting some races.

While almost all non humans lag heavily behind humans (two major gifts, free feat, 30 skill points), was that neccesary?

Why are items used to encourage people to play a race, on role play server?

[Lorkas]

If anything, most of the items in existence are supporting a kind of RP that should exist for these races.

The first sentence in the Monster Manual entry for dwarves is:

Dwarves are noble warriors who excel at metalcraft, stoneworking, and war

For elves:

Elves are aloof guardians of the forests, studying magic and swordplay
for the duration of their long lives.

The very first sentence of the entry for orogs in the Underdark sourcebook is:

The orogs, or deep orcs, are warlike beings who rival dwarves in their skill at making weapons and other machines of war.

So special weapons for these races is there to reinforce these aspects of their identity that is so core that it's in the very first sentence: dwarves have an awesome axe they can forge, elves have a moonblade that represents their dedication to magic and swordplay, and orogs can forge special weapons for themselves.

All along it has been really weird that races who are supposedly really great at forging weren't any better than your typical human blacksmith in any particular way. Now there are some ways in which those races are exceptional in the discipline they're meant to be exceptional in. So this isn't mechanics vs. RP, which is how you seem to be casting it--it's mechanics in support of RP.

[Xerah]

I am maybe missing why to support that power creek by boosting some races.

While almost all non humans lag heavily behind humans (two major gifts, free feat, 30 skill points), was that neccesary?

Why are items used to encourage people to play a race, on role play server?

If there is an optimal choice, more people will select it. Humans are the most popular so even things out through the races only helps diversity.

[Kirito]

Oh, and the other thing that we can now do is have properties scale with class levels. E.g. the thieves gloves (found in loot matrix) that gives +1 disarm trap and open lock per 3 levels.

This again can really help balance classes without unbalancing others. (E.g. anyone with rogue dip doesn't get +10 skill