Why such an aversion to running in dungeons?

[DM Always This Late]

There's a lot of stuff in Dungeons.

Stuff being

Lore books, interesting things to examine that are impactful to plot or story lines, custom items, or creatures etc.

A few examples,

The Crypt dungeon in Cordor is large. I like this dungeon a lot because it has a complex trap, "Minature" bosses, with clues, and lore leading up to "What the heck is this book talking about?" to opening the door and going "AHHH that's what it's talking about RUN!"

The Crypt Dungeon is a dungeon that fuels RP and really encourages a slower pace.

Another example,

The Malarite temple is full of chambers, holy books, gruesome fixtures, and other things that might make your character stop and go. "Dang." and explore the religion of the Malarites and other more nefarious plots.

One more example!

The undead Mansion or Chauntae in Minmir is great. There is lore about that place that expands beyond the battlefields, it's sort of a big deal! Then when you actually explore the mansion there's a lot of clues and things to figure out

I'm trying to be as vague as possible So I do not reveal any plots here. But I do want to point out that if you examine things closely, there's a lot more to the Arelith world, and dungeons, then XP and loot.

These dungeons I think can largely be used as a template to launch RP from, or as a DM I some times use these for inspiration for a plot, or more accurately portraying how the residents of said dungeon might react or reach out beyond the dungeon to impact players.

So TLDR

Walking through dungeons can be beneficial to slow down and enjoy the small things and make more out of dungeons then just what XP/loot/gold you get.

[hoshi]

I don't know how much restructuring will help as you still have the rest mechanic and spending 2 minutes rebuffing. Weavemaster went a bit too far, I think the GSF stuff was nice and hoping ESF stuff comes out soon (though by epic levels you have a ton of spell slots as a wizard so it is less of a problem than at lower levels). I also think that the summons no longer subtracting XP off and spellswords give you something to do without being a negative to the party. I do wish there were more ranged summons like the crossbow battleloth so you're not clogging a hallway if you choose to participate through remote control.

I do think it helps to set a reason for visiting to get RP going. A cleric seeking to desecrate a rival temple gives a motivation everyone can build off of more than "let's go to the slime temple". People now have a reason for being there past XP/loot. For me personally all the times where the RP has been especially good in a dungeon has been when there was a stated purpose for being there past reducing things to 0 HP for fun and profit.

[Black Wendigo]

MY problem with running in dungeons is when I'M in a party and being forced to do so. I cannot type my rp while running and if I stop to do so then no one will be there when I hit enter. Or by the time I type and then catch up the moment is lost and the rp is then irrelevant.

I came to Arelith to get AWAY from people who run ahead of the party, kill everything and grab all the loot before I can get there. If you are doing this then this is my objection. If you RP share the loot and take the time to do things like RP a camp when the party rests, then that's fine by me. THe difference is between a RP server and an action server. Though it was not always the case, Arelith is a RP server and has been for as long as I've been here. That's why I stay,

[Marsi]

Rungrinding by yourself is one thing, but trying to rungrind with an unwitting party, however you rationalize it, is not going to be fun for anyone.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

I think you can have it both ways if people are a bit more emphatic. If the wizard waits to cast mass haste till right before the party is going to kick in the door to the next encounter then they're not rushing the RP. If the party then proceeds from encounter 1 to encounter 2 under the effects of mass haste and then takes a breather to RP they haven't wasted the spell. A bit of compromise goes a long way.

That's how it goes now, yeah. Haste for me is still only a minute, and at most two packs. I really want to get two packs out of each cast, and make sure everyone is ready to continue before I haste and run.

So, here's my thing. The NWN engine is amazingly gifted for its age in creating a largely populated tabletop experience. It also has a very large flaw in the application of this- it's more or less in real-time without turning on the pause button (otherwise read as the troll button), and you cannot command your character with your mouse while attempting to communicate with other players, because everytime you hit enter the cursor takes over and disables the mouse pointer.

As a result, this means there are times attempting to type while you're fighting may cost one of your peers their lives. This also means that when the mage casts a spell you know only lasts a limited while yet makes such a hugely essential difference to your survival, you move.

That's both IC and OOC- I fail to see the dilemma.

WIth that said, I see nothing wrong with burning through the fighting and sneaking in some bits of RP between encounters. There's a lot of different ways to emote slashing something with a sword, or bashing it with a hammer or incinerating it with fire, but after the thousandth time or so you should generally be forgiven for erring on the side of survival.

Sometimes a group is barely getting by. If someone dies, that robs the narrative even more, because typing has to become even more rushed, or not happen at all, lest the whole party wipe.

And that's not fun for anyone.

Now, if you have one of those rare parties that is willing to hole up and guard a haven in the dungeon for the mage to rest every time they run out of buffs, then yeah, you should probably revel in it, and not worry about haste burning off.

But I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Visible Obscurity]

I know for me typing while running is extremely difficult. I also know the pain of almost always being asked to loot and then being left behind while the party moves on. You miss conversation, xp, and are always pretty much bringing up the rear.

Personally when things like this happen I bring it up IC. Most times it is a flat out, well I'm sorry but I just can't keep up with this pace. I don't want to hold you up so I'll lens away. Some times people slow down, other times they send me on my way. All that said the only time I was asked IG why I can't just run my reply was something along the lines of "You try running up a mountain, in thin air your lungs are not used to, wearing full armor, and see if you have any energy left to swing an axe".

To this group I did send a tell. I sent an apology that running just wasn't something I would have any fun with whats-so-ever. I think the only other times tells were exchanged is when someone will ask if I'm just encumbered and trying to help me out to go faster. Sadly that doesn't work. I can't move faster if I want to type and enjoy and loot and fight.

I would ask, what kind of constitution does your mage have that he can run so much and so often but I don't think it my place or others to tell you that 'you are doing it wrong'. For me sprinting about is immersion breaking. I even walk 95% of the time when I'm alone. My weave master who can perma haste doesn't even when in between spawn because she needs the time to recover. All of us do things differently.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

What's the point of partying up with someone if you're not looking for roleplay?

Honestly, it's utterly exhausting to try to orient yourself on "beating dungeons" a la getting xp and loot in the most efficient manner. There becomes a point where players aren't interested in that. They didn't party up with you to do that. They partied up with you to tell a story, to roleplay, to do something you can't achieve in MMOs or other RPGs: cooperative storytelling.

I, like Borin, have on more than one occasion prematurely ended dungeon-delving, or straight up bailed, because it became very evident other people in the party were looking for that next dopamine high of "level up" than interacting with each other and the world.

I don't condemn grinding. Sometimes it has its place. Usually by oneself, or with one or two others - who somehow you manage to create fun by just grinding (usually that requires some meaningful relationship). But it's just not what a lot of people look for.

[Gnarh]

I would ask, what kind of constitution does your mage have that he can run so much and so often but I don't think it my place or others to tell you that 'you are doing it wrong'. For me sprinting about is immersion breaking. I even walk 95% of the time when I'm alone. My weave master who can perma haste doesn't even when in between spawn because she needs the time to recover. All of us do things differently.

Historically it's simply been this. Arelith is an RP server. Rule #1 is "RP is expected, stay in character." To stay in character you are expected to RP that character, their abilities, and their stats...

So unless your constitution is sky high - constantly running isn't staying in character.

A typical dungeon takes what, 30 minutes to an hour real life? That's 5-10 hours IG? An average human has a con score of 8... when was the last time you were able to run, let alone in full armour, for 5-10 hours solid?

So yep. It's about RP'ing your character - and is all wrapped up in a time where the server was trying to factor in these things (roughly the same time that hunger/thirst/rest was added.)

[Cortex]

high constitution master race

[BegoneThoth]

I'm trying to be as vague as possible So I do not reveal any plots here. But I do want to point out that if you examine things closely, there's a lot more to the Arelith world, and dungeons, then XP and loot.

These dungeons I think can largely be used as a template to launch RP from, or as a DM I some times use these for inspiration for a plot, or more accurately portraying how the residents of said dungeon might react or reach out beyond the dungeon to impact players.

So TLDR

Walking through dungeons can be beneficial to slow down and enjoy the small things and make more out of dungeons then just what XP/loot/gold you get.

Yeah, I've actually found a ton of crazy stuff by just noticing stuff that looks slightly off and holy heck a secret transition to somewhere! Sometimes just a room, sometimes a lot more.

MY problem with running in dungeons is when I'M in a party and being forced to do so. I cannot type my rp while running and if I stop to do so then no one will be there when I hit enter. Or by the time I type and then catch up the moment is lost and the rp is then irrelevant.

Well if you see me on Thazar just like, tell me OOC when i'm going too fast for you that i'm going to fast and I'll slow the heck down.

Clearly I'm in the 'speed minority' here, so if i'm going to fast for anyone ever, just tell me as it's happening so I can correct it, as opposed to once it's done or you decide to leave due to said running.

Someone being slower at typing is not an IC issue that would, realistically, prevent you from speaking as we watched summons kill ogres, so just tell me to wait up via greentext as we do it and I'll stop and walk or wait or whatever it is you need or want.

So, here's my thing. The NWN engine is amazingly gifted for its age in creating a largely populated tabletop experience. It also has a very large flaw in the application of this- it's more or less in real-time without turning on the pause button (otherwise read as the troll button), and you cannot command your character with your mouse while attempting to communicate with other players, because everytime you hit enter the cursor takes over and disables the mouse pointer.

As a result, this means there are times attempting to type while you're fighting may cost one of your peers their lives. This also means that when the mage casts a spell you know only lasts a limited while yet makes such a hugely essential difference to your survival, you move.

That's both IC and OOC- I fail to see the dilemma.

You can talk and walk, right-click and click to move work, you just gotta click back to the text box and keep typing after click-moving. You can also click-hold to move.

Trust me it's the only way I can talk so much and run.

I would ask, what kind of constitution does your mage have that he can run so much and so often but I don't think it my place or others to tell you that 'you are doing it wrong'. For me sprinting about is immersion breaking. I even walk 95% of the time when I'm alone. My weave master who can perma haste doesn't even when in between spawn because she needs the time to recover. All of us do things differently.

20 base i think, more with gear.

I do walk too, 99% of the time, but not when monsters are about.

high constitution master race

Yup. Run for days. If 18 to a stat is peek humanity that limit has been exceeded.

[Baron Saturday]

You can talk and walk, right-click and click to move work, you just gotta click back to the text box and keep typing after click-moving. You can also click-hold to move.

This strategy is pretty dependant on dungeon layout, and can be really demanding/stressful for some people.

Personally, I would recommend ICly letting people know that your character likes to move fast in a dungeon, but to let you know if they need to slow down. This lets people know what to expect, and gives them an IC opportunity to give input on the pace of the adventure.

[Astral]

At the bottom line, you should adjust your walking/running pace to the party. Silent grinding is okay (once in a while, not on a regular basis) if all involved are also okay with it. If there's even one person in my party who doesn't like running and/or types slow and/or wants to emote a lot (and my character would likely response one way or another) then the pace of the party should be adjusted accordingly, for all involved to have fun. If you cant keep up with the group or someone in the group cant keep up with you, something's wrong.

[caldura firebourne]

yeah, I generally like to RP while dungeon crawling, it's alot of fun for me, and much more rewarding that way, if I feel like my slower pace and constant emotes or talking irritates others, I won't generally group with those players again anytime soon

[Tarkus the dog]

You can hate me baby and we can run-grind-RP dungeons all night long.

[BegoneThoth]

At the bottom line, you should adjust your walking/running pace to the party. Silent grinding is okay (once in a while, not on a regular basis) if all involved are also okay with it. If there's even one person in my party who doesn't like running and/or types slow and/or wants to emote a lot (and my character would likely response one way or another) then the pace of the party should be adjusted accordingly, for all involved to have fun. If you cant keep up with the group or someone in the group cant keep up with you, something's wrong.

I think the bigger issue is that I can run-grind and talk and a lot of people arn't able to do so, so a run-dungeon for them becomes a run-silent-grind, which is why I need to slow down.

You can hate me baby and we can run-grind-RP dungeons all night long.

Lets run-grind the night away

[Devil Dog]

I dont care for the hasted dungeon crawls. A scout opens a door, sees a mob, closes door and reports back to party. They haste and attack. Thats fine. Or no acout and a fighter opens the door and mob starts charging....party gets hasted. Those are cool by me. Otherwise i want to walk it regular pace. If hasted and running down an empty hall or corridor until you find a mob..... yea i'm out. Just not my thing. But what i dislike most is me and a friend on a dungeon crawl and after resources...we get halfwzy, or 2/3 of the way...a good ways in and suddendly a hasted party catches up with you and says WE can join them. Then in the end they take all fhe resources. That party hasted thru empty maps......imo.....lame and upsetting someone pretty much runs you over to get what I have worked so hard to get to.. i too left a server full of runners and perma haste boots to enjoy the places and company.

[Black Wendigo]

I don't think it's a problem thoug. It is not that hard for a party to figure out whether or not they are going to fo a run-dungeon type grind and make sure everyone understands that this is what they are buying into. That way people who don't like this, can bow out and possibly form a "slower" dungeon crawl style of party.

[SwampFoot]

Running through a dungeon, for me, depends on time I have to play and what I'm looking for at that moment. Sometimes I just want to grind some xp and running is just fine. Don't expect RP during that, though.

I also play sneaks a lot. And running does away with any perception of stealth. Don't expect a rogue to do away with that electrical trap that's going to fry those three at the front either. Detect mode only works at full tilt for an elf, and even they need a second to spot it.

[PenguinNinja]

I find RP during dungeons to always be fairly straightforward and repetitive, especially if you're grinding "Comment on monster B, shit yourself at monster C" etc, at the end of the day I only do dungeons to level, beyond that all my real RP happens outside of dungeons, and dungeons become just what they are, a grind, and a time sink. Therefore if you're someone who wants/needs to walk during a dungeon, you suddenly start wasting my time, and everyone else in the group's time by enforcing a small, tiny part of roleplay that literally doubles the time it takes to clear a dungeon, turning a quick 30 minute grind for some XP into an hour long, boring ordeal.

[Dr_Hazard89]

I don't think it has anything to do with typing speed. I'm an inhumanly fast typer and I don't feel comfortable running through a dungeon. Sometimes it's fine but there needs to be an IC or a good OOC reason (someone has to go soon, reset, whatever).

From an IC perspective you would be making a ridiculous amount of noise and expending all of your energy before even getting to the fight. Not to mention all the dangers of running around with weapons, in the dark, around corners, traps, monsters, so on. In most (not all) situations, if you're running and grinding you just look silly. Even if in your mind you are IC, it sends a signal to others that you are not and can build up an atmosphere of being OOC, discouraging others to even invest time or effort or to take the experience seriously.

If your priority is XP over RP then I think that's a bit of a problem, but it's your problem and you shouldn't be inflicting it on others .. It's a RP server. If you're that bored while doing that stuff, maybe do it alone or with others of the same mindset, so that you don't get in the way of other people who would rather stay in character. We are after all supposed to be in character at all times.

The worst is when a runner (or runners) come up from behind your adventuring party and overtake you. They speed ahead and kill/loot/harvest everything without any RP and it ruins it for your party who was actually having a good time. This used to barely ever happen, but has become more common.

[BegoneThoth]

I find RP during dungeons to always be fairly straightforward and repetitive, especially if you're grinding "Comment on monster B, shit yourself at monster C" etc, at the end of the day I only do dungeons to level, beyond that all my real RP happens outside of dungeons, and dungeons become just what they are, a grind, and a time sink. Therefore if you're someone who wants/needs to walk during a dungeon, you suddenly start wasting my time, and everyone else in the group's time by enforcing a small, tiny part of roleplay that literally doubles the time it takes to clear a dungeon, turning a quick 30 minute grind for some XP into an hour long, boring ordeal.

I usually talk about either current events, or, failing that, deities of the PC's with me.

[Black Wendigo]

Sometimes I use dungeon crawls as a springboard for displaying my char's cultural or racial upbringing. ThIngs like how he reacts to death, killing, loot monsters and other things you find in a dungeon.

[flower]

I would ask, what kind of constitution does your mage have that he can run so much and so often but I don't think it my place or others to tell you that 'you are doing it wrong'. For me sprinting about is immersion breaking. I even walk 95% of the time when I'm alone. My weave master who can perma haste doesn't even when in between spawn because she needs the time to recover. All of us do things differently.

Historically it's simply been this. Arelith is an RP server. Rule #1 is "RP is expected, stay in character." To stay in character you are expected to RP that character, their abilities, and their stats...

So unless your constitution is sky high - constantly running isn't staying in character.

A typical dungeon takes what, 30 minutes to an hour real life? That's 5-10 hours IG? An average human has a con score of 8... when was the last time you were able to run, let alone in full armour, for 5-10 hours solid?

So yep. It's about RP'ing your character - and is all wrapped up in a time where the server was trying to factor in these things (roughly the same time that hunger/thirst/rest was added.)

Characters are played by people.

There are places taking up to seven hours to pass, when properly rping.

Do you rptoilet and others things, like cleaning weapon after every time it gets blooded, cleaning your cloths after every single trip and so on...? If not you are not properly rping your character!

If anyone does not like the style current party goes, can always ask for change via tell or leave. Everyone is free person to play as they wish.

[Nemain]

... like cleaning weapon after every time it gets blooded...

I've seen this done very tastefully, and butchered my attempt at such and similar- definitely recommend to add sparingly at least, for RP hooks and immersion.

As for OP: It seems in one of your later posts you've already reached a better balance for your short duration buffs: use them -when they make IC sense-. The same goes for running: when it makes IC sense to do so. You've a long, mindless route ahead you wanna make take less time to get through? Take a portal or ride a horse. Some dude's shooting your melee from up ahead? Take cover or run into the fray before they can off you. Your friendly mage just cast a powerful, short-lasting ward and you know where the nearest group of enemies is? Act IC: consider whether you're best served charging in while the wards' advantage lasts, or by maintaining ground control. Your wards were just stripped/party started dying left and right/you know if you stay there you're dead meat? Sit down, have some tea, and rebuke the incoming ancient Red Dragon for his terrible manners: it should sit down, grab the teacup by the handle and sip little by little.

At least 10% of the prior paragraph may be a little bit wrong unless playing extremelly chaotic characters.

[HallowedScars]