PvP Engagement

[Nitro]

But I think being considerate is an important step. Some don't like PvP. Many like Conflict RP though. If someone scampers from the field, it's their choice. PvPers? Whispering someone: "Hey, are you cool with ___ RP after this session?"

That should happen more often, I think. More so after you've won the PvP match (so as not to metagame). This way the victims can Opt-in or Out of whatever dark RP comes after their defeat.

Sorry for my tangent. Hope this answered your question.

Sidenote, this is literally in the rules. Unless all sides of a PvP engagement agree to continue RP afterwards, the 24 hour rule applies. So if you get raised and brought off for imprisonment/torture/tea and cupcakes without your permission, contact the DM's because that's a clear violation of the 24h rule.

[Commie]

If you lens out from pvp or something, like before hostilities even begin, isn't that just ic cowardice/weakness?

[Durvayas]

If you lens out from pvp or something, like before hostilities even begin, isn't that just ic cowardice/weakness?

Or a tactical retreat. It depends on how your odds look.

[Commie]

Yeah I get you. But I mean the OP's initial point;

I find myself in a weird place, where on one hand I want to try and get maximum effect / storyline out of conflict RP by engaging in long dialog but usually it ends in folks portaling out.

What do you folks do to handle this kind of RP? I don't want to be the guy who says a couple lines of text and just murders people because I think it's terrible RP imo. But at this point I am unsure on what to do, because it seems pretty much everyone has a portal lens but I definitely know low RP killing people causes a lot of OOC problems.

If people just flee isn't that just plain ol cowardice? You can just call those characters out for being cowards, which is really bad if that character is a knight/paladin type.

[Hin_Priestess]

I feel like this thread is going down hill now... Perhaps DM intervention of some sort?

[Durvayas]

I find myself in a weird place, where on one hand I want to try and get maximum effect / storyline out of conflict RP by engaging in long dialog but usually it ends in folks portaling out.

What do you folks do to handle this kind of RP? I don't want to be the guy who says a couple lines of text and just murders people because I think it's terrible RP imo. But at this point I am unsure on what to do, because it seems pretty much everyone has a portal lens but I definitely know low RP killing people causes a lot of OOC problems.

How do you folks handle it?

Unless I'm mixing you up with someone else, You main a goblin. Goblin players don't have what I'd consider a stellar reputation for pre-(or post for that matter)PvP RP. From what I can tell, people don't trust you to make it worth their while. Try sending them tells. Let them feel they have agency and you aren't the standard goblin or kobold raider who returns to Andunor every week with a pocket full of skulls.

[Cerk Evermoore]

I main a drow we fought in the Sibayad pvp tourney together </3

But I am honestly like the least hostile raiding group in the world. But I get what people mean about being instantly PKed.

If I was to just say a line of text and instantly hop on someone it would be only to use a hold person spell or subdue them as stupid as it is that it's gotten to that point because I would like to actually RP out a damn scene before the person portals out.

But it feels like a situation like that would make the person OOCly frustrated as soon as the RP began and that's the opposite of what I would want as a player.

[Tyrantos]

As soon as an underdarker show their face on the surface they tend to be stomped. But thats the way things goes, and how it used to be for surfacers down in the underdark in the past.

[Ambigue]

Basically:

The loser of a PvP fight loses something that isn't without value to them. They lose a little XP, which isn't too big a deal, but they also get stuck with a pretty hefty debuff that takes hours to clear. That translates to time out of their day.

Having one's plans for the day sidetracked with no benefit to themselves is asking a bit much. Doing this to someone else as a way of amusing yourself is also pretty contemptuous.

EDIT: Not "Yourself" the OP, but "Yourself" in the general 'whoever is reading this' sense.

So, a little basic respect should be all that's needed, really. Actively trying to get folks on board is awesome and adds to the shared RP-space.

[Catchup]

"Pvp is Rp. Remember your IC actions have consequences and hostilities may be one of those.

Don't assume that every person that attacks you is automatically a griefer/douchbag. It's disrespectful and entitled to take that stance and subtracts from everyone's experience of the matter."

Hate to quote myself. But the same topic comes up every couple of months.

[Black Wendigo]

PVP is PVP, not RP. Just because it can show up IN RP does not make it in and of itself RP. IMO PVP is an RP ender: Because as soon as it's over the 24 hr rule kicks in, you or the other party often end up dead ( and dead chars can't RP) and a lot of other things that go against what I consider RP.

There is hostile RP and there is PVP. Not the same. Please don't judge people for not wanting to engage in PVP, as I feel that some of the posts seem to be doing. It's not cheeseball. If you have a problem with someone's actions and you can't resolve it with them, take it to a DM. DMs can provide perspective.

[Marsi]

Having one's plans for the day sidetracked with no benefit to themselves is asking a bit much.

Yep, agreed with this. Is the roleplay good and does the encounter, win or lose, have a good possibility of leading toward or continuing an interesting narrative? Sure, I'll let your character smack mine.

I also agree with the notion that it should be examined as IC cowardice. I think people often forget how powerful character assassination can be. I remember an archetypal righteous knight character years ago hurriedly lensing out of combat when set upon by enemies, abandoning their comrades to the wolves. They were fairly publicly branded as a coward and it was a black stain on their record forever.

[Hin_Priestess]

Not sure if Black Wendigo remembers this...

Ages ago, when his Half-orc monk was one of the Banites leaders in Wharftown, there was a hin that picked fights with the Banite church. To the point, she and her gang were marked for death.

In order to prevent an open war with Bendir and the Banite church, my old toon, Jada Swordhill, and another hin name I forget atm, when up to Wharftown, gave their lives to prevent said war. It was a really good RP-driven PvP moment.

Sadly... most people that PvP that I have encountered, do not take the time to RP. So IMO, not a cheesball thing to cut-and-run when there is poor/no RP you're interested in, and the person(s) you encounter are notorious for poor/little RP before PvP.

If I'm gonna take that stat penalty for several IG hours doing a PvP battle head-on, I want that death to mean something. I want it to have an impact on the community IC. I want that death to create RP opportunity... Just my opinion.

[Ambigue]

Don't assume that every person that attacks you is automatically a griefer/douchbag. It's disrespectful and entitled to take that stance and subtracts from everyone's experience of the matter."

I could not disagree more.

What's entitled is forcing a stranger into a one-sided exchange and expecting them to roll with it, like they owe it to you.

As a player, and, usually as a character, I lose nothing by assuming that the rando who just hostiled me out of the blue for no real reason is probably a big old doucher. If I ignore him and portal out, I get to go back to the things I actually want to do much more quickly.

Basically, I know that I'm not going to stand much of a chance at PvP. No one has ever engaged in it with me without being prepared already or having a few other suitably high-level guys as backup. It has never been anything but extremely one-sided. And, usually, the only IC action I did to deserve it was "exist on the same server as someone who wants to PvP". So, what do I gain from just closing my eyes and letting it happen?

RP? Maybe "Your corpse has been dropped/ your corpse has been destroyed" is the height of RP funtimes for someone. Not me, though.

Character development? I'd get the same amount of character development from the DMs implementing a script that just killed my character at random once a month.

So, from where I'm standing, my experience of the matter only gets improved by assuming exactly that unless someone makes some attempt to reach out to me OOC and get me on board with it.

[Astral]

fantasy world folks. we kill dragons, we enchant gear, with find magical artefects from ancient realms, we pull the lever, we slide through the pits into the darkness. What the hell is so bad about dying sometimes to some stupid pvp that could very well be a big turning point in the other person's storyline? I mean, it's not Sims, it's nwn, it's d&d inspired world. Are you not here for some blood as well, at least a little bit? Maybe if you actually pvp sometimes you'll find out you're good at it and that it's fun and that you also win sometimes and now you get to lead what's coming next. Worth giving it a shot. pvp is pretty fun.

I would never judge anyone lensing out, and I would never judge or make any assumptions about someone who doesn't want me to raise him and prefers respawning and moving on. There's no right or wrong but I'm open for pvp in most cases because why the hell not really. my two scents.

[Gods_Kill_People]

I feel like this topic is heavily turning to " Your doing it wrong, and you should do it my way " Perhaps its time to close this thread down?

[Catchup]

It's actually against the rules to simply engage in pvp without allowing a person an "out."

As I said, the general attitude towards pvp creates a sheltered and reactive culture that turns every pvp into a kneejerking, screeching pool of salt.

Everything IC is Rp. Try and expand the courtesy to others.

[pigman]

I still heavily object to an IC reaction to being hostiled if you have not yet seen the other character

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

I find myself in a weird place, where on one hand I want to try and get maximum effect / storyline out of conflict RP by engaging in long dialog but usually it ends in folks portaling out.

What do you folks do to handle this kind of RP? I don't want to be the guy who says a couple lines of text and just murders people because I think it's terrible RP imo. But at this point I am unsure on what to do, because it seems pretty much everyone has a portal lens but I definitely know low RP killing people causes a lot of OOC problems.

How do you folks handle it?

I hope you don't mind, I skipped almost two pages of what looked mostly like people saying why it's okay or not okay to do x thing to respond directly to OP.

I play a lot of casters. Bigby's Forceful hand is probably my favorite spell; it's a disable that works on most things that aren't strength-heavy builds and does no damage (be prepared to double-cast, though, as it can be prayed out of!) It also doesn't use spell components.

This means if the situation is so immediately tense that I feel like I'm unreasonably placing my character in a risk he wouldn't willingly take by trying to talk while fighting, I can utilize a non-lethal attack to give myself some security and lee-way to RP during PvP without it being a death sentence/free escape- and if they make the saves and engage in return hostilities, I can know I offered them a non-lethal initiation they could have escaped from and offer it my all if necessary.

For hostile town RP, and meleers in general, it's worth noting that most civilized characters (ymmv) won't escalate to armed conflict if you strike them without a weapon (monks don't count ). An unarmed rogue can still fill you full of holes if they knock you down, though.

[Cerk Evermoore]

It's actually against the rules to simply engage in pvp without allowing a person an "out."

As I said, the general attitude towards pvp creates a sheltered and reactive culture that turns every pvp into a kneejerking, screeching pool of salt.

Everything IC is Rp. Try and expand the courtesy to others.

But where does IC draw the line between "What a character would do." and OOC "I don't want to be involved in this situation."

That's what this thread is about. Because I can understand a character would want to escape a dangerous situation and so I understand the instant portal lens. After all why would you fight odds against your favor or even engage a random hostile?

My question is more as an aggressor, when do you think it is okay to engage? Because I have a hard time hostiling or attacking anyone to the point an enemy faction member could snide comment me and walk away slowly and I wouldn't do anything because I would see that as OOCly as a sign they do not even want to interact so I might as well just move on.

I don't know if I am being too sensitive to other players feelings? Should I hesitate to kill other players or should it be like Rambo where "Killing is as easy as breathing?" I am just honestly at a loss as a conflict RPer who came up in RP emote combat servers and situations. I just don't know what I am supposed to do.

[flower]

I dont really get that your obsession about forcing people into pvp. Did he teleport cause spotted group of unknown warded guys (or worse, known ones)? Okay he evaded. Whats the deal? What exactly makes you so angered? That they were not interested in hostilities or rather decided its better safe than sorry?

Just go on and try next one. Being upset people opteded out, instead facing group of characters (with most likely options to die/be captured/enslaved) just seems a bid odd.

[Commie]

I think the big thing here is that running/fleeing/lensing just because pvp happens is an IC act, and not something you can just ignore the consequences of because you as a player didn't want to fight.

[Marsi]

Because I have a hard time hostiling or attacking anyone to the point an enemy faction member could snide comment me and walk away slowly and I wouldn't do anything because I would see that as OOCly as a sign they do not even want to interact so I might as well just move on.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why it's important that your character kill these people? How, in a narrative sense, has anything changed after killing these unwilling opponents? No death penalty will make losers place special significance on unwanted PvP. That could only be done through fulfilling roleplay. This isn't a claim that you're an evil killbasher or anything, by the way, just that I think if PvP is so routinely unsatisfactory for you to the point that you make a thread about it, you may be approaching everything with the wrong philosophy.

[flower]

I think the big thing here is that running/fleeing/lensing just because pvp happens is an IC act, and not something you can just ignore the consequences of because you as a player didn't want to fight.

Well yeah call my character a coward for avoiding pointless, useless fights (fighting when it matters is different topic). Who cares?

[The GrumpyCat]

Unless I've misread this post- it seems not to be.
'How can I get people to stick around so I can pvp with them.'
And more
'How can I get people to stick around so I can RP with them?'

It's all about trust. IC trust and yes, to an extent, ooc trust. If you've previously broken promises of peace in the past of 'No I just want to talk' and fallen to pvp, this will be more difficult, and reasonably so (fool me twice, and all that.)

If you want people to stick around for rp, here are some tips.

1) Let people know you arn't interested in a fight. Avoid pressing the 'Hostile' button. Maybe emote something to show you sincerity (e.g. peace binding your sword) Hiding your race might also be wise. See next point.

2) Give people a reason to stay. Your Character is a Drow. It is entirely reasonable for them to think you will immedatly murder them. So if you're being obvious about being a Drow, offer them something. Oh be sinister if you like, be nasty, but offer them information, tell them you want to trade goods, so on and so forth. By that token - have an ic reason why not to kill them. Maybe your character thinkgs they can get information from them? Maybe he is curious. Maybe he's playing it safe, and isn't interested in combat unless it's strictly neccesary, so on and so forth.

3) Keep your word of peace. As mentioned above, if you arn't interested in pvp, don't start it until/unless they do. If you've a reputation for starting long lines of rp, then suddenly attacking when people least expect it - especialy if you're a power build, people are going to go 'No. Don't talk to this guy. Just get out of there.' You need to build a reputation as a character whom yes, it's dangerous to deal with, but who will keep their word of peace in certain situations.


Finally - You're a Drow. The fact people are fleeing from the mere sight of you is a Good Thing in many ways and as people said, if you are after PvP, people are in no way obliged to give it to you. Fleeing is a perfectly logcial, perfectly reasonable response. By the sound of it, what you have to do is get a careful balence between being a sinister character people are afraid of, but at the same time being a character people know won't start PVP unless it's really warrented.

My question is more as an aggressor, when do you think it is okay to engage?

This is partly just my opinion, please take this with a pinch of salt. But I'd say generally most people appreciate an 'Out' from PVP in one form or another. PVP- killing someone - should occur only with reasonable provarication.
E.g. - if surfacers are on your turf, pop by, warn them, tell them to get out. If they ignore you then sure, attack.
- If someone insults you with words - just try insulting them back a bit. Keep the conflict to verbal spars at least for a while, then show signs your character is loosing his temper.

But here's the thing: People somethings thik:
I PVP a person. I win. = That person now respects and fears me!
Uh... sort of yes. But unless you give an extremely good quality of RP either before or after the PVP, the reaction of most pc/characters is going to be less:
'Wow I'm afraid of that person, I should do what they want!'
And more.
'I should avoid that person at all costs!'

I am not saying this is what has been happening, but it's a reasonable reaction to take.


I hope this helps, I know there's been some concern over this thread getting nasty, so I'm laying down a warning now and I am more than willing to lock this is people get hostile again. Fleeing from PVP is a perfectly logical and fine decision, which anyone is free to do. No one is obliged to give you your pvp. That said it is also generally seen as an In Character Decision and thus if people want to call it cowardice, they can.