Extend spell exploit + Brewable and wandable Bard spells?

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Opustus
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Extend spell exploit + Brewable and wandable Bard spells?

Post by Opustus » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:29 pm

Tried asking this in the build and mechanics forum, but I didn't get my actual questions answered. (Got good build advice though!)

1) In vanilla NWN if you cast an extended spell -> use a spell from an item (item, potion, wand) -> the spell used from the item is also extended. Does this apply to Arelith? Is the exploit allowed or not?

2) In vanilla NWN the Bard spells Wounding whispers and War cry cannot be wanded, only brewed. The Arelith wiki states that the vanilla limitations to brewable and wandable spells have been lifted, barring a few balance-prudent exceptions. However, Bard spells are not included in the wiki list under Brew and Craft wand feat changes: http://wiki.arelith.com/Feat_changes. Is this an oversight? In short, can bards craft Wounding whispers and War cry into wands or are they still limited to brewing?
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Iceborn
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Re: Extend spell exploit + Brewable and wandable Bard spells

Post by Iceborn » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:36 pm

While I don't like it, it's not considered an exploit to use the metamagic bug - as far as I know.

And, I don't... really... know.
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greatfanfare
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Re: Extend spell exploit + Brewable and wandable Bard spells

Post by greatfanfare » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:34 am

I seem to recall, that unless the user has the Extend Spell feat, "extended" wands behave as normal wands.

So, not a exploit, since those already invested a feat for it.

Kirito
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Re: Extend spell exploit + Brewable and wandable Bard spells

Post by Kirito » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:07 am

greatfanfare wrote:I seem to recall, that unless the user has the Extend Spell feat, "extended" wands behave as normal wands.

So, not a exploit, since those already invested a feat for it.
You can cast metamagic on wands?

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Re: Extend spell exploit + Brewable and wandable Bard spells

Post by vaclavc » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:25 am

All relevant metamagic feats work with wands and it is not an exploit. I think it is not a bug, either. Extended/empowered/maximized spells cast from wands are bread and butter of any wizard.
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Nitro
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Re: Extend spell exploit + Brewable and wandable Bard spells

Post by Nitro » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:27 am

Kirito wrote:
greatfanfare wrote:I seem to recall, that unless the user has the Extend Spell feat, "extended" wands behave as normal wands.

So, not a exploit, since those already invested a feat for it.
You can cast metamagic on wands?
Not on wands specifically, but if you cast say an extended mage armour on yourself, all spells that you get from wands and potions will also be extended until you cast another spell.

The obvious downside being that unless you're close enough to pure caster, you're gonna be dispel bait.

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Re: Extend spell exploit + Brewable and wandable Bard spells

Post by Kirito » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:07 pm

Nitro wrote:
Kirito wrote:
greatfanfare wrote:I seem to recall, that unless the user has the Extend Spell feat, "extended" wands behave as normal wands.

So, not a exploit, since those already invested a feat for it.
You can cast metamagic on wands?
Not on wands specifically, but if you cast say an extended mage armour on yourself, all spells that you get from wands and potions will also be extended until you cast another spell.

The obvious downside being that unless you're close enough to pure caster, you're gonna be dispel bait.
Ah well, thought I could make me some Maximised zoo wands for a moment

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Lorkas
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Re: Extend spell exploit + Brewable and wandable Bard spells

Post by Lorkas » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:20 pm

No, but you could prepare a maximized INT (or other) buff, cast it, and then use wands of the others before casting any other spells.

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Re: Extend spell exploit + Brewable and wandable Bard spells

Post by Wytchee » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:28 pm

Yep. Casting a spell with metamagic (Mebrith casts max endurance, since it's the only one that's not CL 15 on wands) then using a wand applies that metamagic. It lasts until you cast another spell without that metamagic.

I don't believe it's an exploit, either, and if it's deemed to be I'd protest. It doesn't work unless you have the feat, so it requires some level of investment.
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Hunter548
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Re: Extend spell exploit + Brewable and wandable Bard spells

Post by Hunter548 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:38 pm

Last time I asked Noxt, I got told it wasn't an exploit.
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Re: Extend spell exploit + Brewable and wandable Bard spells

Post by Wytchee » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:52 pm

I feel it would be very strange for the devs to focus their efforts on "fixing" this when it hurts absolutely no one; it only helps vancian casters manage their spellbooks more efficiently, and requires the appropriate feat investment to work, anyway.

I really don't want to have to use every circle 5 slot for maximized zoo spells again.
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Opustus
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Re: Extend spell exploit + Brewable and wandable Bard spells

Post by Opustus » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:37 pm

Just to be clear, I wasn't using the word exploit in the sense that something wasn't allowed, but in the sense that I think it's probably unintended by the game developers. I don't see anything wrong with it either, but I can remember the topic being disputed in Amia. I think that the balance of the exploit is contestable and depends on what kind of items are lying about in the module, the latter of the two which I know nothing and hereby rest my case.
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