Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

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Hunter548
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Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Hunter548 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:29 am

Is this class coming to regular arelith? (Shadow Weave/Illusionists are hugely my thing)

Are the bonuses/penalties up for being adjuested? The Shadow Weave's supposed to be better for enchantment/necromancy, in addition to illusion spells, so it'd make sense to get a bonus to both of those as well.

As for the penalty; Would it be possible to instead have evocation spells be significantly less effective? I ask only because it'll be incredibly obvious that your character is antithetical to normal mages, despite Shar being all about secrecy and shadow mages (Usually) being able to at least pass as a normal mage. An inability to cast evocation spells, however, gives a super obvious warning if you ever get in a vaguely difficult fight, which goes against the whole Sharran secrecy thing.

No light spells, no fire descriptor spells, half CL on other evocation spells, or something to that effect?
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Lorkas
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Lorkas » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:33 am

Thematically, I hope so.

Mechanically, I hope they also make the additions that it is difficult to use the Weave to dispel effects cast by the Shadow Weave, and vice versa, and have magic cast by the Shadow Weave not be affected by regions of wild magic in the UD.

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WanderingPoet
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by WanderingPoet » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:35 am

I for one know several mages that I've never seen use evocation spells, or use them very infrequently - illusionists/enchanters usually. Without metagame knowledge of a class there is little reason to think an enchanter/illusionist is an evil shadow mage just because they don't use evocation spells. The infinite cast of acid arrow makes it easier to not need evocation as well.

Sounds like they use the shadow weave for their spells rather than the weave - sounds interesting/fun!
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AllTheWorld
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by AllTheWorld » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:04 am

Far more range than the Warlock classes have.
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Hunter548
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Hunter548 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:28 am

WanderingPoet wrote:I for one know several mages that I've never seen use evocation spells, or use them very infrequently - illusionists/enchanters usually. Without metagame knowledge of a class there is little reason to think an enchanter/illusionist is an evil shadow mage just because they don't use evocation spells. The infinite cast of acid arrow makes it easier to not need evocation as well.

Sounds like they use the shadow weave for their spells rather than the weave - sounds interesting/fun!
My thought process on the secrecy thing comes mostly down to IGMS. After a certain level, in a tough fight a mages sole contribution tends to be IGMS, at least after everyone is hasted.
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Lorkas » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:38 am

There's no obvious reason why someone would call you out as a Sharran for casting BBoD, Phantasmal Killer/Weird, Horrid Wilting, or something else like that instead, though.

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Hunter548
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Hunter548 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:57 am

You're right - This was mostly just a top of the head metagaming concern sort of thing.

It definitely should be a boost to all three schools however. And also be choosable after creation, since it doesn't appear to be in FL?
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AllTheWorld
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by AllTheWorld » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:35 am

Might be a good opportunity for another NPC in a secret spot that teaches someone to do it?

Looks like a great class idea in general. Might be worth considering having lowered DC's on evocation spells, or maybe a backlash result when casting them?
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susitsu
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by susitsu » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:24 pm

Ive never even played an evoker past level 8. All my mages are a bit more flavor.

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gilescorey
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by gilescorey » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:40 pm

IGMS operates wholly independently of focus. It's as useful as it is whether you have all the evocation feats or none at all.

That's like saying you don't care about Transmutation because you've never made a character with feats in it; Time Stop and Haste are Transmutation spells, and the latter is arguably the most powerful spell/effect in NWN.

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Hunter548
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Hunter548 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:17 pm

Bump.

Any chance of this coming to the main server, devs? I'd love to play one.
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:37 pm

It looks absolutely incredible. I think it deserves bonuses to either necromancy or enchantment too.
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Mithreas » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:47 am

It's going to get +2 to necromancy and enchantment. Scholar has approved it for the main server, so I'll probably merge the code across at some point today.
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by AllTheWorld » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:35 am

Will this also be applied for Bards? Bards make for excellent characters of Sharran faith, and are using arcane spell casting too.
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Mithreas » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:42 am

At present it is wizards and sorcs only. Bards not having many evocation spells (and no critical ones), means that the "no evo" restriction is basically meaningless to them. I'm open to making it a bard path as well but it would need a better drawback - losing Ice Storm and Gust of Wind really isn't a significant cost.
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Hunter548
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Hunter548 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:44 am

Image

Will this have the same req's as FL's version (Evil only, must worship Shar?)

Will it be character creation only, or acquirable after creation at [FITTING REDACTED LOCATION] ala Warlocks?
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Mithreas » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:48 am

At present, it's on creation only, though there's a proposal out there for being able to take it as a pact at [FITTING REDACTED LOCATION].

Evil only isn't a restriction, worship of Shar is. At least, if you want to retain the ability to cast arcane spells. If you don't have levels in a divine class, you can even be Good aligned... presumably with an interesting story to back that up.
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Hunter548
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Hunter548 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:53 am

Mithreas wrote: there's a proposal out there for being able to take it as a pact at [FITTING REDACTED LOCATION].
Image




being able to make a shadow weave-ist after creation would make a lot more sense to my mind, given that the shadow weave isn't hugely common knowledge
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Terenfel
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Terenfel » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:17 am

May take levels in Shadowdancer without meeting the usual requirements. Instead of gaining Sneak Attack from their shadow, Shadow Mages get +1 caster level per Shadowdancer level.

Does that mean they only get the CL when the shadow is near them? and how does the EPIC shadow lord feat affect this?

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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Purplemyst » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:31 am

Will dms be able to give tokens for this?

Please say yes :D

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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Cortex » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:42 pm

Purplemyst wrote:Will dms be able to give tokens for this?

Please say yes :D
Like every other path, it shouldn't need DM help.
:)

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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Purplemyst » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:25 pm

I was meaning till an npc is implemented.

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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by JediZero » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:35 pm

in lore there's a difference between shadow magic and shadow weaving. As well, once you swap to Shadow Weaving, you don't come back 'cause Mystra cuts you from her Weave. Barring some sort of quest to seek forgiveness from Mystra (possible DM quests!)

I'm guessing shadow weave items are going to be nigh impossible to implement, and it being harder for usual Weave users to identify shadow weave spells and vice versa, or any sort of visual difference to their spells.

Either way, this looks like it might be a nifty way to mechanically differentiate between sources of magic.

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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Hatsune Miku » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:54 pm

Awkward, I'm tempted.
If the character is a legacy weavemaster, how would this go down both mechanically and lore wise?

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Hunter548
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Re: Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

Post by Hunter548 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:34 pm

Can we get confirmation on whether this will be selectable post-creation?
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