Shadow Mage/Shadow Adept

[Xerah]

While this could be meant to be a shadow weave only thing, why not just open it up to all mechanically? There doesn't seem to be a need to limit it only to Sharans. Looks cool otherwise.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_magic

[gilescorey]

tfw can't make my shadow mage maskarran because mithreas hates my thievin ways

feels bad man

[Nitro]

While this could be meant to be a shadow weave only thing, why not just open it up to all mechanically? There doesn't seem to be a need to limit it only to Sharans. Looks cool otherwise.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_magic

As it says in the 3ed Forgotten Realm campaign setting:

A spellcaster who wants to manipulate the Shadow Weave must either worship Shar, permanently lose a piece of his or her mind, or make some sort of arrangement with Shar and his or her existing patron deity. A Shadow Adept is a spellcaster who specializes in using the Shadow Weave.

The Shadow Weave is best suited for dark magic that drains life or muddles the mind and the senses, but less suited for magic that manipulates energy or matter. Spells from the schools of Enchantment, Illusion and Necromancy are enhanced, while those from the schools of Evocation and Transmutation are impaired. The Shadow Weave is also superior for fueling spells that create darkness (spells with the darkness descriptor), while it is impossible to use it to create light of any kind (spells with the light descriptor)

Any ol' wizard can cast shadow magic (The Shades spell for instance) but only a worshipper of Shar can access the Shadow Weave.

[Xerah]

My point is why limit it to just be the Shadow Weave? It seems like it would be a better use of scripting and implementation time to open it up rather than use for something so narrowly focused.

[Lorkas]

While this could be meant to be a shadow weave only thing, why not just open it up to all mechanically? There doesn't seem to be a need to limit it only to Sharans. Looks cool otherwise.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_magic

From the article you linked:

Although Shadow Weave magic was heavily redolent of shadow magic, they were in fact unrelated, with some fundamental differences in practice and philosophy. Whereas shadow magic users drew upon the Plane of Shadow via Mystra's Weave, Shadow Weave magic users drew their power directly from Shar's dark weave, which was formed from the gaps and negatives in the Weave itself.

Mithreas wanted to add in the Shadow Weave, not Shadow Magic. It's a cool addition, and I hope more is done to expand on it in the future. Making it freely open to everyone makes it worse--you might as well ask for warlocks to be open to any alignment and not bear a potential social cost in RP.

Although there is this from the actual Shadow Weave article:

A spellcaster who wants to manipulate the Shadow Weave must either worship Shar, permanently lose a piece of his or her mind, or make some sort of arrangement with Shar and his or her existing patron deity.

It would be cool if there were these multiple ways of accessing it. In particular I could see Shar's ally Talona and a few other deities being able to offer their worshippers access to Shar's shadow weave.

Alternatively, perhaps other worshippers could take the path through the "permanently lose a piece of his or her mind" option. The cost in 3e DnD for taking the "Shadow Weave Magic" feat is -2 WIS if you don't strike a deal with Shar, and it requires that you have at least 13 WIS to start with.

[Cortex]

tl;dr This path is a Shadow WEAVE Mage, as opposed to a mere Shadow Mage.

[Xerah]

Well, that was actually edited in after the fact, but yes, the negative to WIS should be added if it is meant for that.

Still, more options available given NWN's non-hak limitation is better.

[Wytchee]

Not that my opinion matters, but I think I would object to opening up the path to more deities, mainly because it would likely result in players choosing the path simply for the mechanical benefit if they wanted to make an epic illusionist/enchanter, etc. Keeping it limited to Sharrans helps keep the number of Shadow Mages running around the server in check, as a lot of people are dissuaded from generally evil roleplay, or otherwise aren't keen on the deity herself.

[Aren]

May take levels in Shadowdancer without meeting the usual requirements.

Can someone explain what this means mechanically? Are there no requirements to take shadowdancer levels for a shadow weave user? Are there some? If so, what are they?

Also, this has me all bubbly like a child at christmas.

[Wytchee]

I'm making a rather fair assumption here, but I'm guessing taking the path automatically affords you access to Shadow Dancer even without meeting the vanilla feat or skill requirements.

I'm also super giddy!

[Mithreas]

If you are a Shadow (Weave) Mage, then you can take Shadowdancer levels regardless of whether you have the skills and feats usually required. This could mean taking Shadowdancer levels as early as level 4 (though... that would probably not be a good idea).

No confirmation yet on whether it will be available after creation. That's pending an admin team decision (and someone to then do the addition, if approved).

[Aren]

If you are a Shadow (Weave) Mage, then you can take Shadowdancer levels regardless of whether you have the skills and feats usually required. This could mean taking Shadowdancer levels as early as level 4 (though... that would probably not be a good idea).

No confirmation yet on whether it will be available after creation. That's pending an admin team decision (and someone to then do the addition, if approved).

Thank you for this new path. Truly.

[High Primate]

It's a great idea, but I think limiting them to worship of Shar limits what can be done with them RP-wise. Also, not all wielders of Shadow Magic worship Shar in FR. Vhaeraun is associated with Shadow Magic, and several other deities are served by Shadow Mages:

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_magic

Why not open it up either to a wider range of deities, or to evil characters?

[Cortex]

It's not Shadow Magic, it's Shadow Weave.

[High Primate]

In that case, I guess I suggest keeping the path but changing the theme to Shadow Magic, so that more people can play it. Certainly Shar is not the only deity themed around shadows and such.

[Cortex]

The way this is designed, it is to be played as a Shadow Weave user, Shadow Magic and Shadow Weave are different. Shadow Magic does not hinder your evocation power, nor does it boosts your illusion/enchantment/necromancy like the Shadow Weave does.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

This should 100% stay as a Shar-only thing. The magic that is being used is the 'space' between the web of the Weave. I think it should centred around the conflict with Shar, because she is the First-born, and Queen of the Sun, and the true Goddess.

[ShamanCZ]

May take levels in Shadowdancer without meeting the usual requirements. Instead of gaining Sneak Attack from their shadow, Shadow Mages get +1 caster level per Shadowdancer level.

Does that mean they only get the CL when the shadow is near them? and how does the EPIC shadow lord feat affect this?

How about CL and shadow?

[Wytchee]

Just to reiterate a question another player asked: we don't actually have to have the shadow out to get the CL increase, right? I'm 99% sure this isn't the case, but thought I'd ask.

[Mithreas]

The CL applies whenever.

[Magnusc0r3]

Don't know if you know this, but the main Villain (Boss) in NWN2, The King Of Shadows, essentially gets all his power from the Shadow Weave too. Not relevant, but I did play NWN2 a lot, minus any Persistent Realms for that one.

[Lorkas]

Don't know if you know this, but the main Villain (Boss) in NWN2, The King Of Shadows, essentially gets all his power from the Shadow Weave too. Not relevant, but I did play NWN2 a lot, minus any Persistent Realms for that one.

And was immediately corrupted and became insane for it. Either way, characters accessing the Shadow Weave are not going to be lovey good characters who like shadows--they're going to be evil and potentially insane in their evil.

[Magnusc0r3]

Are Shadowdancers linked in any way?

[Mithreas]

Shadowdancers are not necessarily linked to the Shadow Weave, no.

Obviously, a Shadow Weave user who takes Shadowdancer is, but it's perfectly possibly to access the Shadow Plane and shadow magic in general without using the Shadow Weave.

Essentially, the Shadow Plane and Shadow Weave are independent concepts, despite the similarity in name. There's synergy there, but you can be a Shadow Weave user who doesn't focus on shadow magic, and vice versa.

[JediZero]

^^^^
Mith's got it. Shadow Mages and Shadowvar are generally darker, but as we all know dark does not always mean evil. As for the King of Shadows, yeah. Basically during Karsus' Folly (Which is why we have the current rules for magic as we know them) the weave ceased to be for a few minutes. The King of Shadows, whose existance was tied to the weave, panicked and flailed around. Latching onto the Shadow Weave. . .It sustained it, but corrupted it from the passive guardian it had once been to a monster.

So yeah, Shadow Weave is bad news all around. There's a reason Mystra cuts off people who use the shadow weave from her gift, permanently.