I don't get it?(umd)

[-XXX-]

That's why smart mages use timestop scrolls (same way as any WM would)

[Cortex]

Evocation focus is helpful if you use HB/GR.

Bigby's Forceful Hand can also get 36 ish DC reflex and it also takes a STR roll*, and if you fail that, you're prone for round/level. Nothing can remove that "status" effect, drop an Incendiary Cloud and your target is toast.

*1d20 + 14 versus the target's roll of 1d20 + target's strength modifier + target's size modifier

WMs, barbarians, rangers, they all have a significant enough chance of failing to that even with high STR. Character without STR will need a fair bit of reflex in order to survive.

Edit: Even the other Bigby's have their own worth now, since it takes both FoM and clarity/mind blank to be entirely immune to them, FoM can be breached, clarity will last less than the spell, and mind blank can also be breached.

[Shadowy Reality]

It still has a reflex save. It isn't hard to make. And doesn't mind blank + freedom entirely negate it?

Hellball and Greater Ruin are a one time combo, which can be countered with -prays or a greater restoration. After that the mage is out of juice.

[Cortex]

It still has a reflex save. It isn't hard to make. And doesn't mind blank + freedom entirely negate it?

Hellball and Greater Ruin are a one time combo, which can be countered with -prays or a greater restoration. After that the mage is out of juice.

Mind blank and FoM do NOT negate Forceful Hand, and making a 36 DC is not as easy as it may seem.

If you force your target to use -pray on your HB/GR combo, they won't be able to pray next time you hit them with a disabling spell like a Bigby, confusion, etc.

[-XXX-]

A lvl 30 weapon master will have a base reflex save around 16, add +6 save vs spells from a spellcraft dump and around 10 more from gear (seriously, some artefacts like insane bonuses to saves), if he had the time to use a cat's grace potion before the battle, he'll be failing the oh-so-dreaded DC 36 bigby on a roll of 1 exclusively. That's before taking the option to take epic save feats into consideration.

[Cortex]

Including artefacts in anything will break the formula, though. That way you can justify building a 2hander with +4 AC on every slot, or some grotesque ultra smiter with STR/CON/CHA artes.

[-XXX-]

Yeah, artefacts favor melee builds as well. Casters will not get that much out of them in most cases.

But fine, let's ignore artefacts for a moment - there are NPC vendors casually offering +2 uni save items for fairly affordable prices, so you can easily set up your gear to get around +10 save bonus without sacrificing much in terms of stats even without the use of artefacts.

[Cortex]

You sacrifice CON, or damage or both, two very important things.

[-XXX-]

If you opt for 600hp instead of settling for 500 hp and +10 to saves, you're doing it wrong Cortex.

[susitsu]

I'm starting to see a strong opinion on a bad argument. I'm not bothering with that. L m a o gsf wm, calling evo bad

/threadexit