My cunning manipulator build

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Artenides
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My cunning manipulator build

Post by Artenides » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:43 am

Since I am not really good at coming up with builds, please help me build my character.

The vision: A cunning manipulator who is interested only in increasing his power and position. He operates from the background or hires adventurers to help him doing his dirty work. He may starts living in the sewers but dreams about his own palace... or at least a seat in the city council! :D
He may serves a deity but keeps it a secret, pretending to be a good hearted person. And he will kick that cute puppy when the others are looking away. :twisted:

Requirements:
- has to be LE
- not really interested in PvP (his "friends" and "allies" will help him anyway)
- Some bluff would be nice
- Some soloing capability would also be nice but not essential
- No wizard :)
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RamblerTeo
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Re: My cunning manipulator build

Post by RamblerTeo » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:51 am

Why not just play a build you like and roleplay that 'cunning manipulator' archetype? Your build doesn't have to 100% fit your character. Just sacrifice one skill on X build and take bluff instead.
You can RP whatever you like and still have a good build in case you actually have to fight for yourself and not get shredded like wet paper.

Play a bard/blackguard or a rogue, bards have perform which boosts their bard song & their ability to use -disguise and rogues have bluff as a class skill. 24 rogue 6 fighter is the easiest thing to do, but you can go do the monk dip variant for the apr with kamas.

Check out the git gud guide: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9473&p=77415&hilit=Git+Gud#p77415

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susitsu
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Re: My cunning manipulator build

Post by susitsu » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:56 am

A generic 24/6 rogue fighter build would fill you with more than enough skill points to handle what you want. You could easily afford bluff, appraise, and you know like ten other maxed skills based on your int. (Rogues with 18 int make me happy on the inside.) With proper UMD use, you can solo, especially if you just go pick up a summon creature nine scroll and go "I'm not a wizard tho."

My first suggestion was also wizard before I got to that part <_>

A bardguard/THE BLACK METAL BARD/just an evil battle-bard would also cover what you want quite well.

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Artenides
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Re: My cunning manipulator build

Post by Artenides » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:10 am

Thank you for both of your suggestions. Mixing bard levels with blackguard seems to be quite nice. Do you have an example build for this?
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RamblerTeo
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Re: My cunning manipulator build

Post by RamblerTeo » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:13 am

susitsu wrote:THE BLACK METAL BARD
excuse me, it's called 'powermetal bard' and it is a name trademarked by me, thank you very much sir.



I'll send you a few bard builds via pm

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susitsu
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Re: My cunning manipulator build

Post by susitsu » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:15 am

RamblerTeo wrote:
susitsu wrote:THE BLACK METAL BARD
excuse me, it's called 'powermetal bard' and it is a name trademarked by me, thank you very much sir.
PROVE IT

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RamblerTeo
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Re: My cunning manipulator build

Post by RamblerTeo » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:20 am

Image

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susitsu
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Re: My cunning manipulator build

Post by susitsu » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:23 am

damn that looks super real

fine, powermetal bard

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Jagel
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Re: My cunning manipulator build

Post by Jagel » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:43 am

As for build I'd say at least 16 bard lvls 4 bg lvls pre epic. From there you can mix in some fighter, more bard if aiming for lasting insp (or whatevs that epic feat is called), more bg to gain more bg stuff (summons mainly).

You can go for divine might/shield but that requires a bit more attention to stat spread, feats etc.

I always liked the Sarevok approach. Cunning and manipulative but a melee beast too.

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Wytchee
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Re: My cunning manipulator build

Post by Wytchee » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:22 pm

Might I humbly suggest Rogue 13 / Blackguard 17?

Blackguards can be sly and manipulative; they don't have to wear big spiky armor or roam around professing their devotion to the Dark Lord of their choosing.

You get all the rogueish skills, Blackguard sneak attack stacks with Rogue's, and you get a freakin' awesome summon to help you solo those really tough dungeons and hunt for powerful artifacts!

Pump charisma, which will compliment both your saves and your bluff score. Persuade wouldn't hurt, either (even though it can sometimes be tough getting others to roleplay along)!
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Astral
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Re: My cunning manipulator build

Post by Astral » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:30 pm

You can do a 10 monk 4 rogue 16 bg. I'd do it if I didn't care about pvp. This should be super fun for the concept you describe and probably not too hard to lvl up solo with summons and monk survivability. You'd need a gonne though.
Currently playing: Seth Xylo

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Opustus
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Re: My cunning manipulator build

Post by Opustus » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:32 pm

I've always found the BG a bad idea for one's evil to go unremarked. Don't BGs practically ooze with evil power? The way I would RP a quintessential BG wouldn't be subtle but menacing and horrid, but this is of course only my own take on the class. Buildwise, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot not being able to use your abilities in good company and having the "Death Attack" messages pop overhead (unless those have been removed on Arelith). Sure, people can pretend not to notice them out of courtesy, but you'll never be completely incognito. EDIT: Oh scratch that, mixed it up with Assassin. Duh.

One idea would be to opt for a class that is usually perceived as good, live up to its standards, while concocting your evil plans on the sly. If dim memory serves, some evil priests (Mask? Beshaba?) go to great lengths to disguise as clerks of other deities.

Lastly, I want to point out that not all evil is evil in the sense that it would be extracted from good cities. Planar evil, in my humbledore, is prevalent; it taints everything and has seeped into the core of humanity, and that is why evil has a footing in everyday life, even if the churches of evil churches aren't openly espoused in major cities. For example, Beshaba appeals to people's fears and experiences of misfortune (which are universal but more intense for the destitute), and the evil dwarf deity Abbathoir works through greed and avarice, which has become commonplace or at least difficult for dwarves to discern from an appreciation for the beauty of gems.
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Artenides
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Re: My cunning manipulator build

Post by Artenides » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:30 pm

Actually my first concept was some kind of a cleric who hides his true identity but it is almost pointless to use disguise without bluff or perform...
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Opustus
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Re: My cunning manipulator build

Post by Opustus » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:45 pm

Who's to determine the true nature of your character? If he shows every external sign of being a goodie, there's no clue to his "true identity". In short, your character is who he seems to be. Disguise is for the goobs who have already blown their cover. ;)
Characters: all poor babies suffering from neglect

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High Primate
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Re: My cunning manipulator build

Post by High Primate » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:36 am

Jagel wrote:As for build I'd say at least 16 bard lvls 4 bg lvls pre epic. From there you can mix in some fighter, more bard if aiming for lasting insp (or whatevs that epic feat is called), more bg to gain more bg stuff (summons mainly).

You can go for divine might/shield but that requires a bit more attention to stat spread, feats etc.

I always liked the Sarevok approach. Cunning and manipulative but a melee beast too.
I'd go Bard 12/Fighter 4/BG 4 for your pre-epic split.
Some builds I've worked on (not recommended):
Charisma Battlecleric
"E-Dodge Brycer"

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