Speedy Messenger (Build)

[kittenblackfriends]

So there's two ways I am looking at making a "Speedy Messenger" PC. One is a pure monk, and the other is a wizard.

The monk is a WIS-based Kensai monk. I'm considering WIS based because they can still use shurikens (Zen Archery), kensai gets FoM already, and WIS will make them more immune to mind spells. They would also ride a horse (medium award). However, I'd be concerned with how viable shuriken are, especially considering their rather crap damage. I would definitely want pure monk, so...seems rather unviable.

Wizard would have ESF Illu and ESF Trans. Carry speed and invisibility/sanctuary spells. I'd be mostly concerned about the dragons on some maps just swooping down and having dinner.

Ideas? The wizard build seems viable for multiclassing. I was considering picking up monk since it removes the speed limit that all other classes have, but I thiiiiiiiiink Arelith actually put that speed limit back? I can't stack haste + expeditious retreat for movement shenanigans at the least.

[HindianaJones]

The wizard probably works better, because you could send your Illusionary Speedy Hins, and teleport, and haste yourself, etc. Easier to level, has a lot of goodies available to it, too.

[Diegovog]

You need some ESF Divination so you can know where your target is!

[kittenblackfriends]

This is true!

Also, can one cast spells while riding a horse?

[HindianaJones]

Yes! - Horseback hin are awesome. But be prepared to see the horse resize to a normal sized horse when you get off it.

[kittenblackfriends]

Boom

Mechanics check me. Make sure my INT and skills add up properly, as well as my feats?

[auramin]

Pardon my noobishness but why ESF: Spellcraft? What have I missed?

[gilescorey]

It'd be a +2 universal saves vs spells, but Wizards already don't have too difficult of a time acquiring decent saves, with maximised (something that can easily be acquired by dropping the wholly useless SF: Spellcraft feat) Endurance allowing for some +1 Uni on their gear, as well as a large INT bonus to the Spellcraft skill.

Though, that being said, this is a pure caster build, so I'm not sure if optimisation is really anywhere near the OP's aim.

[kittenblackfriends]

I want playability with shenanigans. Ideally, a way to deliver packages. I'm thinking of a dip in some other class in the last three levels for skill dumping - either rogue or bard. In which case, I'd dump the two Intelligence Feats and replace them with earlier gaining of ESF.

(Considering bard for the shield proficiency - combine it with a small shield for 5% ASF and the benefit of getting another slot to enchant with.)

[Yellena]

I have a pure monk on the hold with the delivery focus too! Screwed up the build for the fun of going turbo and full SR.
Let's slowly take out the competition.

[WanderingPoet]

You could go Monk/Cleric (12 monk/18 cleric?) - they can get two Epic Spell Focus feats (Scry to find them, Teleport to get there - perhaps Illusion but then you're not really delivering!) and it doubles up on Wisdom. Would also get you improved evasion and some monk spell resistance to make you a bit safer, plus a 40% speed boost and potential haste for a 90% speed boost.

Travel Domain (for all that running!) would give haste and freedom of movement (at an earlier level) and/or Knowledge domain (for knowing how to find your prey/contact) so you can scry.

Four gods have both domains: Sehanine Moonbow (elven), Oghma, Waukeen and Gwaeron Windstrom - a speed messenger hin that worships Waukeen because they want to get rich off the coin could be fun!

[kittenblackfriends]

Epic Spell Focus requires 9th circle spells, which a Lv17 cleric would get. You'd have to land Lv17 and Lv18 on one of the epic feat slots (Lv21, 24, 27, or 30). Definitely doable...

[Dalenger]

You could go Monk/Cleric (12 monk/18 cleric?)

How viable would something like this be? Defense would be tough, as you wouldn't be able to wear any armor. Or would being wis/dex/con stacked deal with survivability issues?

[kittenblackfriends]

I mean, you would have one set of magic vestments as opposed to two. But assuming one can get their WIS as high as my INT is on my full build, you should be able to get...3 AC from DEX and 6 AC from WIS, without counting gear. It would be equivalent to a standard full plate, without a shield. We can take tumble into account, but I imagine bard/rogue dips are also popular on most tanks for tumble.

[Yellena]

You could go Monk/Cleric (12 monk/18 cleric?)

How viable would something like this be? Defense would be tough, as you wouldn't be able to wear any armor. Or would being wis/dex/con stacked deal with survivability issues?

AC can go high.
10 base
+5 armor
+5* deflection
+5* natural (barkskin)
+10 DEX (average)
+13 WIS (average)
+6 tumble
+2 monk (lvl10)
==================
46+10* = 56
*: dispellable AC

Gearing for some saves can be nice too.
Also, maybe going 9 Monk (or 10monk/17cleric to not lose 1 ac) and 3 Rogue could be useful, as you get Uncanny Dodge, what helps a lot keeping your ac.

[WanderingPoet]

Shadowdancer might be a bit better than rogue - it won't give you HIPS but it would net you a shadow to sacrifice to run away, 3 free points of hide (a speedy messenger with hide/MS can get to more places) and darkvision which if it works may help running around caves finding people? Although I wonder if you can summon the shadow and the epic spell focus illusion ghost and have them both fight for you.

Come to think of it the SR from monk isn't useful with the cleric spell providing more spell resistance (even if it is dispellable), although 12 monk also gets you 10% bonus speed. Going 9monk/18cleric/3 rogue/barbarian/SD or just 10 monk/20 cleric would work nicely.

On AC - you'll have owl's wisdom for +2 AC, although not cat's grace - you'll also have +4 ac from haste and +2 against evil/good from protection from evil, and you can toss dodge and combat expertise on for a bunch more AC if you are focused on not dying.

Greater Sanctuary too, for those times you need to pass dragons, or Drow.

[RamblerTeo]

Just do a 20 monk 5 rogue 5 shadowdancer.

[kittenblackfriends]

As a cleric, you can get the cats grace from taking the war or animal domains, in addition to Travel for haste.

[Dalenger]

Just do a 20 monk 5 rogue 5 shadowdancer.

The whole point of the cleric was to be able to cast epic spells like illusion and teleport. Otherwise, it'd be impossible to be a speedy (unless you meta'd and sent PM's, asking where people were).

[High Primate]

Why not just go for ESF: illusion for send image? You want to be competitive with the other messengers, right?

Edit: nevs. I often have other PCs send my character's messages so that the other person can immediately reply. And because the personal touch is better.

[Yellena]

Keep in mind that is a very expensive message.... 5 components.

Question for DMs: if for the sake of RP, we asked the player who is to receive a message his location, and he agreed to share... would that be bad metagame?

[Nitro]

That sort of sounds like metagaming, since message doesn't give any info on location at all, just sends a message. Finding people is the purview of -scry.

[WanderingPoet]

With Epic Spell Focus: Divination, the -scry command becomes available. Once per rest, with the Clairaudience/Clairvoyance spell active, the character may send -scry as a tell to another PC (or type -scry [START OF TARGET'S NAME]). This permits the character to spy on their target for roughly one minute. It is possible to protect against this, but means of doing so are considered Find Out In Game information.

Knowledge Domain would be needed to Scry, though you could get a wand of it - if you're scrying that often it'd probably be cheaper to get cat's grace potions/wands for the few AC.

I'd argue Illusion isn't all that important as sending an image is basically like sending a hin and defeats some of the point of being a messenger hin (although illusion + summon shadow could be fun). Scry to find and teleport to cheaply get to them would be musts - although teleport could be dropped if you run fast and know all the shortcuts.