Tips on Leveilng a Rogue

[earthsong309]

I know I've been asking a lot of questions lately. Sorry! I'm returning after a long hiatus and trying to find my bearings.

1) I'm level 8 and still turning in rat tails, burnin' through healing kits in the process. Unless I'm with a dedicated tank, I'm running around the battlefield trying not to get two-shot by hobgoblins. What do I do?

2) How many points should I be expected to invest in various skills? I plan on maxing UMD, Hide/MS, Open Lock, Set and Craft Trap, all to 33. But if that's overkill, I should invest in other areas, like a discipline dip or tumble. Never played a rogue past the first few levels so I'm unsure what to expect, but I don't want to hit 30 and find out I don't have enough points in open lock to handle artifact chests, or enough in set/craft trap to manage epic traps.

Other than that I am finding rogue a blast. Using summon scrolls and flanking is a lot of fun, and the new loot system always has a surprise in store. Kudos devs.

[Mithreas]

Some tips...

Knockdown is your friend. A successful knockdown lets you fire off sneak attacks while your target is prone.

Pickpocket: Sneak and pickpocket is a way of getting XP that doesn't require fighting whole spawns. When a creature spots you (some will, as some are better at spotting than others), back away to fight it solo (with knockdown), then carry on thieving. You can actually pickpocket a creature you're fighting, if your defenses are good enough to deal with going flat-footed in combat. So you get more XP for totally embarrassing a creature by swiping everything it owns while laughing at their flailing attempts to hit you, than you do for just killing them.

Always have an escape plan - potions of invisibility or similar.

Getting two-shot by hobgobbos suggests your AC/HP are quite low. AC in particular is well worth investing in as a rogue. If you've dipped a class with shield proficiency, going sword-and-board can definitely help survivability (just watch out for the armour class penalty on your shield - don't carry it while sneaking!).

[earthsong309]

Haha, woe is me. Appreciate the advice, Mith, but:

- my character uses a shortbow D: so no knockdown (will get called shot later)
- I haven't invested in pickpocket because I'm worried I won't have points for other skills
- the character is built around having summons later... you can assume how. Hence why I went shortbow, to 'flank' while my summon tanks. Won't be pure rogue, but will heavily invest in the class more than most builds do (about 13 levels) and will be built around roguish play (traps, sneak, lockpicking, etc).

So I guess I'll just have to grin and bear it until I get my own personal meat shield. What is suggested for skills, though? Is 25 craft trap enough, for instance? Or is that more FOIG info?

[Nitro]

Toss some gold at a summon creature scroll, 4 should do at level 8 and isn't too expensive. Add in some barkskin potions, a wand of mage armor and maybe haste or stoneskin if you have the gold to spare and you have a pocket-tank to allow you to sneak attack with impunity.

As for craft trap, I generally find it a pretty useless skill, since you can just recover all the traps from dungeons you go through, and will mostly just be for PvP since enemies killed by traps don't yield XP.

[Mithreas]

Ooh, archer-rogue. Played one of those too I assume you've taken rapid shot?

If you have cover in the area, shoot to lure something and then duck behind cover once it gets about half way to you. Then sneak-doubleshot. Keep the summon nearby in case that doesn't kill them, but sending a summon along against a large group of spawns is likely to see it get beaten up.

On skills, it varies so much with playstyle - there are several viable options. Craft traps isn't that common, for example. I'm a big fan of pickpocket (in case you didn't notice!) but not that many take it.

[earthsong309]

Thanks a lot, Mith and Nitro.

Definitely taken rapid shot. I top DPR when I've got a dedicated tank

I suppose I'll stop investing in Craft Trap, since they're apparently recoverable, and invest instead in pickpocket (because honestly how fun is that?).

Thanks for the tips!

[Nitro]

Also, darkness, invisibility or any other spell that breaks line of sight is useful for getting a wand of to get more sneak attacks out.

[High Primate]

Get your AC up.

1. Enchant all gear for dex and (where applicable) AC. Don't worry about adding skill points yet.
2. Use a melee weapon for soloing. Take 3 warrior levels ASAP so you can carry around a tower shield (I assume you plan to take warrior levels). Your dex gear and tower shield will give you higher AC. Save the bow for when you are in a party.
3. Stock up on scrolls of Shield and Mage Armor, which are a relatively inexpensive source of AC. Also useful are potions of barkskin and cat's grace. Potions of speed are useful for tight situations and boss fights.

[yellowcateyes]

2) How many points should I be expected to invest in various skills? I plan on maxing UMD, Hide/MS, Open Lock, Set and Craft Trap, all to 33. But if that's overkill, I should invest in other areas, like a discipline dip or tumble.

Don't bother with Craft Trap. Epic traps can't be crafted, so you might as well focus on recovering the traps you need. You can also find traps as chest loot.

The Set Trap DC for epic traps is 65. You can take 20 on the rolls, so aim for 45 in the skill (DEX included). Mind, it's really something you'll only use for PvP/Bosses, since killing mobs with traps doesn't give you XP.

You don't need to max UMD. Factor in your CHA bonus or penalty, then go for 20. That'll give you access to all wands/scrolls and many artifacts. Some go as high as 25, but it sounds like you're strapped for skill points. Just remember that UMD is only useful in multiples of 5. (Having 14 UMD is functionally the same as having 10 UMD). At a minimum, get 15.

You definitely need Tumble. Not having tumble AC probably contributing to your character needing all those heal kits. Discipline dump is also very useful for any character.

[Baron Saturday]

Few things:

- Absolutely get tumble up to 30.
- Enchant gear with dex/con. Dex first, con as available.
- Boots of the Ultimate Coward (tailoring item) are amazing. +1 AC and expeditious retreat 1/day. I still use a (heavily enchanted) pair of these at level 25.
- Eventually you're probably going to want an adamantine helmet and enchanted silk shirt, but work up to those.
- UMD of 10 will get you by fine for most common buffing wands (barkskin, grace). Because the potions are just... So short-lived, once you can afford the initial investment, you'll save lots of money.
- Even if you don't want to do much melee, pick up weapon finesse and a short sword or rapier. Equip them before summoning that summon that you'll eventually have.

[livingNPC]

Tangle traps are your friend. You can usually pick these up from goblinoids.

With Yasdia, I always traveled with various traps, depending on what I needed, for certain MoBs.

[Hunter548]

1) AC's very important for a rogue. Definitely take a fighter dip of at least four levels, both for some extra damage to up your wet-noodle-when-not-sneaking status, and to get a discipline dump. Every character on Arelith needs discipline; Lack of it will get you killed, occasionally to stuff a third of your level. Expertise will help with AC in melee, allowing your summon to kill the nasty.

2) Darkness wands are a rogue's best friend for soloing. Specifically get a Shadow Conjuration wand - It's both significantly cheaper, and lasts longer than regular darkness. Darkness lets you get sneak attacks automatically. Ultravision wands, of course, go hand in hand with this.

3) Party up. Rogues will die a lot solo. You want an AC tank who'll -guard you while you deal damage via sneak attacks.

4) At low levels, a shapechange scroll is a game changer. Buy one, on credit if you have to, then go wander the isle until it runs out or you have to log. There's large portions of the server that lack +5 weapons, electrical damage, dispels or Word of Faith, which are the only things really dangerous to a lowbie rogue shapechanged into an iron golem.

5) Invis potions are, unfortunately, a semi-unreliable way to escape monsters. I'd advise haste potions/guaji as a more reliable way to get out of bad situations. Corner sneaking is also unreliable with Arelith's AI.

6) I likewise am gonna severely disparage pickpocket's PvE usefulness. Lots of monsters on arelith get random spot/listen boosts, meaning you stand a very good chance of being spotted while trying to pickpocket people - My epic rogue still gets spotted by badgers on occasion, for instance. The EXP also isn't great, and it's a worthless trick in parties.

7) Don't max UMD. It only increases on every 5 ranks, so you want, at most, 30 after your CHA modifier. I personally wouldn't recommend taking more than 15 or 20 after CHA modifier. The former number gets you all wands/scrolls, the latter most artifacts and race/alignment locked items. 25 allegedly gets you everything on Arelith, with the except of the new race/class locked craftables.

8) How much open lock, disable trap, set trap, etc you want depends on if you can get +2 gear for it. Open lock DCs top out at around 40 for chests, though some doors get up much higher. Remember you can make heavy use of thieves' tools to hit those DC 90 locks. Breaking into player quarters is usually an exercise in futility. Traps are lower, and don't continue scaling quite as much. Set trap, you want enough to set epic electrical traps - The number is, iirc, 40 something before the take 20. If you can get +2 gear this number'll be lower.

9) Search is useful for moving around, and extra loot. I'd put around 15-20 ranks into it. Max tumble. Heal's always useful for saving money. Bluff is very good. Intimidate no longer has any mechanical benefits for non-barbarians, as far as I know. Persuade's returns are kind of eh. I don't think there's any rogue skills I'm missing.

10) Shadowdancer might be something to take. The tricks it gets are fairly useful in PvE - the shadow, especially, makes a decent-ish tank for PvE soloing with a solid SD investment. Shadow Daze is exceptionally funny. HIPS speaks for itself.

[Lorkas]

Set trap, you want enough to set epic electrical traps - The number is, iirc, 40 something before the take 20. If you can get +2 gear this number'll be lower.

The DC is 65, so you need 45 to set them on a 20. Remember you get +2 bonus if you have 5 or more ranks in Disable Trap (and vice versa).