Greater Magical Weapon question.

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Bloodedblade
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Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by Bloodedblade » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:26 am

I was wondering about the changes to gmw on the server. I see that it won't stack with any other spells such as darkfire, etc and has to be cast on a bronze weapon. I was curious as to why its been modified in such a way that it won't even work with permanent essences. This seems to bring it down below most forged weapons that don't require a spell and even further behind those with a permanent essence placed upon them. I'm new around here so I was just curious if anyone could shed a little light on this. I'm sure there is something I'm missing and appreciate any answers. Thanks for all that you folks do around here by the way. ;) :)

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Cortex
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by Cortex » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:31 am

Because otherwise there'd be no reason not to carry around a fat stack of GMW scrolls to use on your best customized weapon.

You can, however, do the following in order:

1) Cast GMW on weapon.
2) Use a craft station/basin to give it keen or whatever.
3) Give it a temporary (and a permanent if you're so rich you sweat gold)
4) Boom, you got the best weapon in the server until the buff wears off.
:)

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The Rambling Midget
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by The Rambling Midget » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:35 am

Level 15 GMW gives +5 to hit, which can't be achieved through crafting, and allows penetration of DR up to X/+5, meaning that Stoneskin, Greater Stoneskin, and Premonition are useless against it. That's very powerful, so you're forced to make a trade off.

Even so, Masterly Damask with two d6 essences deals 8-18 bonus damage, while a +5 GMW weapon with one d6 essence deals 6-11 bonus damage. The +2 bonus to hit and DR penetration more than make up for that small damage loss, in the right situations.
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Nitro
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by Nitro » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:39 am

Actually, some of the new crafting weapons are +5, so GMW enchanted weapons aren't the absolute best things around anymore.

Bloodedblade
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by Bloodedblade » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:27 pm

Well it seems then that GMW could a little love then if there are permanent weapons at +5 in the game. It would be nice at the very least if permanent essences could be used on the weapon and then GMW cast on it. It feels kind of punitive against clerics to be honest. If not essences then possibly remove the inability to at least put darkflame on it etc. It all goes away when the spells wear off or the person rests regardless. These new weapons will never lose their enchantments.

Trunx
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by Trunx » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:43 pm

GMW is completely fine as it is.

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gilescorey
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by gilescorey » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:55 pm

Nitro wrote:Actually, some of the new crafting weapons are +5, so GMW enchanted weapons aren't the absolute best things around anymore.
A +5 Light hammer is going to be inferior to anything barring like, a whip, even if it's +5.

edit
Trunx wrote:GMW is completely fine as it is.
also this, GMW does not need buffs ???

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The Rambling Midget
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by The Rambling Midget » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:20 pm

Bloodedblade wrote:It feels kind of punitive against clerics to be honest.
You have a point, there. Clerics are pretty much the weakest class in the game.

As a side note, Rangers do get a +5 weapon enchantment that stacks with everything.
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Lorkas
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by Lorkas » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:23 pm

GMW doesn't need love. It's a 500ish gp way for even a level 3 character to have a +5 weapon for an hour and a half.

Its usefulness falls off a little from "OMG must have" at lower levels to being conditionally useful at higher levels, but at no level does it need to be stronger.

Nitro
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by Nitro » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:26 pm

It'd be nice if some of the weaker weapon buffs got some love. I mean, when was the last time you saw someone above level 5 cast flame weapon or darkfire on someone else above level 5?

(trueflame summon doesn't count)

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caldura firebourne
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by caldura firebourne » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:38 pm

It's actually useful for mining, but alchemist fire is cheaper, and mundane... And more widely available
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The Rambling Midget
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by The Rambling Midget » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:00 pm

Nitro wrote:It'd be nice if some of the weaker weapon buffs got some love. I mean, when was the last time you saw someone above level 5 cast flame weapon or darkfire on someone else above level 5?
I don't think the buffs need direct love, in the form of empowerment. Rather, I think that they need to be given a purpose within the module, in the form of damage vulnerabilities or immunities. In my experience, it's extremely rare to see any enemy that's sufficiently vulnerable to an unusual damage type to warrant switching weapons or tactics.
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dirza
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by dirza » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:01 pm

I would prefer overhaul of totally pointless spells...magic weapon anyone? +1 enchantment...or...wow bane :D

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gilescorey
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by gilescorey » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:21 pm

dirza wrote:or...wow bane :D
inb4 Hunter548


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Cortex
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by Cortex » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:59 pm

fate stay night sucks!
:)

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Iceborn
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by Iceborn » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:44 pm

If anything, GMW needs to get hit by the glorious nerf hammer from effect to scroll creation.
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Tyris
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by Tyris » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:21 pm

Allowing Darkfire to be streamable would be an interesting perk, cannot be scribed or wanded of course.

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gilescorey
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by gilescorey » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:59 pm

I think it'd be cool if Flame Weapon, Darkfire, other related spells (NOT holy sword) took the slot of a temporary essence - I believe the CL is too low for a scroll or wand of these spells to outpace an essence, or it's very close to being equal - and cheaper.

But a full caster with the spell would be neat. Perhaps it could upgrade with whatever focus the spell belongs to? Just something off of the top of my head, but even so I think it sounds cool.

Edit: Rereading this some hours later, I made Holy Sword an exception as I'd like to see it more closely tied in as a major benefit or powerful ability exclusive to Paladins, some kind of buff that makes going into the deep levels of Paladin rewarding, as well as making it "more" than something like darkfire/flame weapon/etc.
Last edited by gilescorey on Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nitro
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by Nitro » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:36 pm

gilescorey wrote:I think it'd be cool if Flame Weapon, Darkfire, other related spells (NOT holy sword) took the slot of a temporary essence - I believe the CL is too low for a scroll or wand of these spells to outpace an essence, or it's very close to being equal - and cheaper.

But a full caster with the spell would be neat. Perhaps it could upgrade with whatever focus the spell belongs to? Just something off of the top of my head, but even so I think it sounds cool.
That actually sounds like a real good idea, make it stack with other buffs in the same manner that temp essences does, so you can either have 1 weapon buff if you have a cleric/wizzer/sorc in the group, or 1 temp essence on top of it all.

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The Rambling Midget
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by The Rambling Midget » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:39 pm

gilescorey wrote:I think it'd be cool if Flame Weapon, Darkfire, other related spells (NOT holy sword) took the slot of a temporary essence...
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msterswrdsmn
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by msterswrdsmn » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:59 am

There are a handful of spells/weapon damage sources that stack with GMW, but they're all extremely situational and/or bursty-short lived abilities.

That said, GMW is fine as it is. It was the only thing giving my quarterstaff monk a decent weapon when greensteel quartertaves were the end-game quarterstaff. Even then, it was more his build and less the GMW that was allowing him to fight. Both the base and potential damage you can do with a gmw weapon is less than a masterly damask weapon, assuming you aren't dealing with higher levels of DR.

The +2 AB difference is nice, but the tradeoff in damage is a cost that most people aren't willing to deal with.

That said, I don't think allowing darkfire/flame weapon on top of a gmw weapon would be a great idea. It was situational, but I was able to smack things with a plain weapon and a flame weapon scroll to the tune of 80+ bonus damage from flame weapon alone per round. This was balanced out somewhat by the fact that most high level critters weak to fire are resistant to non-enchanted weaponry. I can't imagine this would be terribly fair if I had a gmw/keen/flame weapon/temp essence combo up.

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susitsu
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by susitsu » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:04 am

The Rambling Midget wrote:You have a point, there. Clerics are pretty much the weakest class in the game.
what

Astral
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by Astral » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:38 am

susitsu wrote:
The Rambling Midget wrote:You have a point, there. Clerics are pretty much the weakest class in the game.
what

I think(?) it was a very well disguised sarcasm.
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susitsu
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Re: Greater Magical Weapon question.

Post by susitsu » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:44 am

Astral wrote:
susitsu wrote:
The Rambling Midget wrote:You have a point, there. Clerics are pretty much the weakest class in the game.
what

I think(?) it was a very well disguised sarcasm.
it's what i'm hoping to hear. just waiting.

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