Build questions
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Build questions
Hey, I'm rather new here and my experience with NWN is rather low so I've been wondering a few things about a character build. As far as I've understood in most cases if you go with a cleric build you should focus on either casting larger spells or melee with buffs but for RP reasons I wanted to create a character that can both hold his own and cast a few of the larger spells. I'm wondering if it's possible to do with the Arelith gift system.
The idea was to go Cleric 13/WM 7/CoT 10 (I am allowed 2 prestige classes if they are not behind the 5% reward or PrC token, right?)
With a gift I could get WIS up to 17 at the start and allow myself level 7 spells and then never touch it again. Now the problem wold be low CON since I need to get DEX up for WM .
My main question is this: Is the idea viable in any sort of way if I'm not trying to be the best DPS or PVP build or is it just going to fall flat on its nose even against PvE?
The idea was to go Cleric 13/WM 7/CoT 10 (I am allowed 2 prestige classes if they are not behind the 5% reward or PrC token, right?)
With a gift I could get WIS up to 17 at the start and allow myself level 7 spells and then never touch it again. Now the problem wold be low CON since I need to get DEX up for WM .
My main question is this: Is the idea viable in any sort of way if I'm not trying to be the best DPS or PVP build or is it just going to fall flat on its nose even against PvE?
Re: Build questions
I'd go for 15 cleric/7 wm/8 fighter instead. The build is viable and can be fun to play, but I'd never recommend it to someone that's new. It's also going to generally have more trouble in PvE than PvP.
I'd suggest you go for at least 20 cleric levels and ditch the WM, and make the WM cleric as your second battle cleric if you still want to.
I'd suggest you go for at least 20 cleric levels and ditch the WM, and make the WM cleric as your second battle cleric if you still want to.
Last edited by Trunx on Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Build questions
Fair enough, I'm most likely going to take your advice and try out a normal battlecleric first then but I have a few questions on your first suggestion, how big is the difference between picking CoT and Fighter?
As far as I can see it would give me the same amount bonus feats, weapon specialization and level 8 Cleric Spells while forgoing Sacred Defense and Divine Wrath. I'm guessing I also don't need to get much CHA in this case and stop at 10?
And on a slightly differing note how do stats play into your characters personality on Arelith?
As far as I can see it would give me the same amount bonus feats, weapon specialization and level 8 Cleric Spells while forgoing Sacred Defense and Divine Wrath. I'm guessing I also don't need to get much CHA in this case and stop at 10?
And on a slightly differing note how do stats play into your characters personality on Arelith?
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Re: Build questions
You can't take normal weapon specialisation on CoT levels, only epic weapon specialisation, and that's only if you take a COT level at epics
Re: Build questions
Have you considered Cleric 21 / Fighter 6 / Rogue 3? It can fight and cast spells and, with the Trickery domain, has access to pretty decent thief abilities.
I wouldn't worry about Divine Wrath. If you want a Cha build, go paladin instead of rogue or fighter and take Divine Might / Divine Shield. Your stats are spread thin but it's doable, esp as a human w. gifts.
Edit: I should add I always found the above build boring if mechanically strong. My most interesting characters have been more flawed mechanically but fun to RP. I'd start with a strong theme or motif for a character and worry about the build after. Which I'm sure you've done. Just saying!
I wouldn't worry about Divine Wrath. If you want a Cha build, go paladin instead of rogue or fighter and take Divine Might / Divine Shield. Your stats are spread thin but it's doable, esp as a human w. gifts.
Edit: I should add I always found the above build boring if mechanically strong. My most interesting characters have been more flawed mechanically but fun to RP. I'd start with a strong theme or motif for a character and worry about the build after. Which I'm sure you've done. Just saying!
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Re: Build questions
Since you're a new player and you, as a cleric, you can easily get out of any PvP situations (and I don't want to be focusing too much on PvP when giving tips to a newer player) I'll be focusing mostly on PvE:
Basically Arelith has this idea of 'nerfing' clerics by adding a lot of mobs to the module that can dispel you fairly easily, I'm not sure if this is still the case ( I think it is ) but my experience of playing a cleric revolved around buffing myself, getting dispelled 10 minutes later and drinking spirit so I can drop my Rest meter bellow 50% in order to rest and re-buff again ( this was nearly one year ago however ).
Cleric WM is very tricky since you need 13 DEX which is something I don't recommend on any cleric build unless they are being DEX focused, and due to the removal of 3 gifts per character you get even less stats to play around with ( that said, CHA clerics are hardly doable now if at all ).
Having considered these two things- ( that you can easily be dispelled, and that classes like WM and CoT are while doable, will make leveling up for you slightly annoying since you'd need to spare some points in CHA or DEX, and therefore lose your more important stats such as CON and WIS) your best option is getting as many cleric levels as possible and picking classes that don't scale off of any stat other than STR, CON and WIS ( fighter is the most common example ).
Since, from what I can see, you want a character that can both fight on their own and cast their spells something like 23 cleric, 4 fighter, 3 rogue is most 'optimal'. However, like Trunx said, 15 cleric 7 wm 8 fighter is also doable but definitely not something a new player should go for.
You can find the 23/4/3 build in here viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7455&p=62158#p62158
You have to work around the numbers due to the gift changes, but it's still relatively doable.
Rogue/bard dips are somewhat essential due to 6 ac from tumble and UMD. You as a cleric can live without UMD fairly easily but 6 AC makes a huge difference in some of the epic dungeons.
I recommend switching evocation for conjuration for easier leveling ( which also means different epic feats, not hellball and greater ruin without evocation focuses for sure ), since combat-vise as a 3/4 BAB class you're somewhat spell-reliable, most of the time your role is to be a tank. During boss fights it's a different story. I recall one time my cleric soloing a storm giant that a DM dropped in some random event. Some months later when I fought the same storm giant, but in the dungeon where the boss is located, on a weapon master that are deemed 'overpowered' by some fools I nearly died to it. Point being: even though you're a low-damage tank without your offensive buffs, you turn into a boss-killer when they are active.
However, most of the slots in /this/ build you'll be using for self-buffs and offensive spells, so if while BEING awesome in combat you're also hoping to be able to cast useful spells now and then for your allies and yourself, there are other options- such is dual-kamas cleric/monk/fighter ( It doesn't get UMD, but like I mentioned you don't need it that much as a cleric, at least not in PvE ). DEX/WIS focused means more spell slots and therefore more spells. You also get more AC, but way, way less HP- So that is one trade-off.
In overall- There are many options, the 23 cleric/ 4 fighter / 3 rogue being the most optimal. WM Cleric is absolutely doable, not as strong as the other options in some regards to PvP and PvE, but I'd recommend not to go for CoT since that class gets nothing special in Arelith, at least not yet ( I hope ) other than the +1 saves per two levels which, as a cleric, you already have.
In overall, I do recommend going for the cleric if you're into playing a melee AND a newer player. Magic vestment and GMW will make up for the poor server development choices and grant you decent weapon enchantment and AC early on. Regenerate is kinda nutters but, like I said- easily dispelable. Spell resistance is probably your best friend, since ( for some reason ) when a dispel spell is cast ( that while you would otherwise be fully dispelled ) if you have that spell on you only the spell resistance will be removed.
Basically Arelith has this idea of 'nerfing' clerics by adding a lot of mobs to the module that can dispel you fairly easily, I'm not sure if this is still the case ( I think it is ) but my experience of playing a cleric revolved around buffing myself, getting dispelled 10 minutes later and drinking spirit so I can drop my Rest meter bellow 50% in order to rest and re-buff again ( this was nearly one year ago however ).
Cleric WM is very tricky since you need 13 DEX which is something I don't recommend on any cleric build unless they are being DEX focused, and due to the removal of 3 gifts per character you get even less stats to play around with ( that said, CHA clerics are hardly doable now if at all ).
Having considered these two things- ( that you can easily be dispelled, and that classes like WM and CoT are while doable, will make leveling up for you slightly annoying since you'd need to spare some points in CHA or DEX, and therefore lose your more important stats such as CON and WIS) your best option is getting as many cleric levels as possible and picking classes that don't scale off of any stat other than STR, CON and WIS ( fighter is the most common example ).
Since, from what I can see, you want a character that can both fight on their own and cast their spells something like 23 cleric, 4 fighter, 3 rogue is most 'optimal'. However, like Trunx said, 15 cleric 7 wm 8 fighter is also doable but definitely not something a new player should go for.
You can find the 23/4/3 build in here viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7455&p=62158#p62158
You have to work around the numbers due to the gift changes, but it's still relatively doable.
Rogue/bard dips are somewhat essential due to 6 ac from tumble and UMD. You as a cleric can live without UMD fairly easily but 6 AC makes a huge difference in some of the epic dungeons.
I recommend switching evocation for conjuration for easier leveling ( which also means different epic feats, not hellball and greater ruin without evocation focuses for sure ), since combat-vise as a 3/4 BAB class you're somewhat spell-reliable, most of the time your role is to be a tank. During boss fights it's a different story. I recall one time my cleric soloing a storm giant that a DM dropped in some random event. Some months later when I fought the same storm giant, but in the dungeon where the boss is located, on a weapon master that are deemed 'overpowered' by some fools I nearly died to it. Point being: even though you're a low-damage tank without your offensive buffs, you turn into a boss-killer when they are active.
However, most of the slots in /this/ build you'll be using for self-buffs and offensive spells, so if while BEING awesome in combat you're also hoping to be able to cast useful spells now and then for your allies and yourself, there are other options- such is dual-kamas cleric/monk/fighter ( It doesn't get UMD, but like I mentioned you don't need it that much as a cleric, at least not in PvE ). DEX/WIS focused means more spell slots and therefore more spells. You also get more AC, but way, way less HP- So that is one trade-off.
In overall- There are many options, the 23 cleric/ 4 fighter / 3 rogue being the most optimal. WM Cleric is absolutely doable, not as strong as the other options in some regards to PvP and PvE, but I'd recommend not to go for CoT since that class gets nothing special in Arelith, at least not yet ( I hope ) other than the +1 saves per two levels which, as a cleric, you already have.
In overall, I do recommend going for the cleric if you're into playing a melee AND a newer player. Magic vestment and GMW will make up for the poor server development choices and grant you decent weapon enchantment and AC early on. Regenerate is kinda nutters but, like I said- easily dispelable. Spell resistance is probably your best friend, since ( for some reason ) when a dispel spell is cast ( that while you would otherwise be fully dispelled ) if you have that spell on you only the spell resistance will be removed.
Re: Build questions
Thanks for all the advice already but a few new questions have cropped up now.
I'll shelve the WM idea for a later date but now I'm stumped by domains, for the character I initially intended to make it was going to be Fire(Mostly for RP purposes as a Kossuth Cleric though energy buffer seemed quite decent) and Strength. Now that I've perused the forums a bit more, it seems that there's a rather unanimous agreement that Travel, Trickery and Animal are the best domains. Does that mean that all others are completely useless or are they just suboptimal?
I'll shelve the WM idea for a later date but now I'm stumped by domains, for the character I initially intended to make it was going to be Fire(Mostly for RP purposes as a Kossuth Cleric though energy buffer seemed quite decent) and Strength. Now that I've perused the forums a bit more, it seems that there's a rather unanimous agreement that Travel, Trickery and Animal are the best domains. Does that mean that all others are completely useless or are they just suboptimal?
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Re: Build questions
Travel (Haste), Animal (better summons), and Trickery (Improved Invis) are indeed generally considered the most powerful choices. There are, however, a number of other choices which are useful due to which spells they add to your list. Taking other domains certainly won't cripple you, and some of them are still pretty great. For example, plant domain gives you access to the extremely powerful Barkskin spell, allowing you to use it for +5 nat armor, instead of the 3 from pots or 4 from wands. As with most things in Arelith, it comes down to what you want to play.
Re: Build questions
Suboptimal. Air is fun for (piratical) RP flavour. And UMD / wands will give you Haste / Improved invisibility usage wihout travel / trickery. But Travel, Trickery and Animal are easily the best.
Re: Build questions
Disclaimer: I'm not a min-max, build optimizer so my input is based on that.
Travel gives access to haste which very useful as a cleric no matter if you focus on casting or combat, trickery gives acces to improved invisibility which augments your defense while animal domain empowers summons.
A clerics' strength does not lie in domains, however - domains are a nice perk that in some cases augment your character and in some cases mostly serve as perks. They're not going to make or break your character.
My advice is to go for whatever suits your character. Fire is sort of meh and strength is ok (gives more uses of divine power because it can be cast as both a lvl 3 and lvl 4 spell, stoneskin is a good spell to add to your cleric's spell book and with a bit of investment into charisma the divine strength power might be worth. Probably you're better off leaving that one alone though unless you have other uses for charisma (like going for divine might/strength)
*edit* sort of ninja'd
Travel gives access to haste which very useful as a cleric no matter if you focus on casting or combat, trickery gives acces to improved invisibility which augments your defense while animal domain empowers summons.
A clerics' strength does not lie in domains, however - domains are a nice perk that in some cases augment your character and in some cases mostly serve as perks. They're not going to make or break your character.
My advice is to go for whatever suits your character. Fire is sort of meh and strength is ok (gives more uses of divine power because it can be cast as both a lvl 3 and lvl 4 spell, stoneskin is a good spell to add to your cleric's spell book and with a bit of investment into charisma the divine strength power might be worth. Probably you're better off leaving that one alone though unless you have other uses for charisma (like going for divine might/strength)
*edit* sort of ninja'd
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Re: Build questions
I'm not an optimal builder at all, but in regards to the dispels I haven't really faced that as much. My character is pure casting cleric however, which are better at not getting dispelled except from breaches.
I personally like the magic domain/healing domain, as they allow more ways to help your teammates. You can also empower your automatically empowered healing spells for extra healing, and magic domain comes with two nice defensive spells.
I suggest picking one useful/strong domain and one that fits your character's RP/diety (If its also useful, great).
I personally like the magic domain/healing domain, as they allow more ways to help your teammates. You can also empower your automatically empowered healing spells for extra healing, and magic domain comes with two nice defensive spells.
I suggest picking one useful/strong domain and one that fits your character's RP/diety (If its also useful, great).
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Re: Build questions
I very much recommend taking travel domain due to haste spell that clerics don't otherwise get. Aside from that, whatever you take it won't make a huge impact. People usually go for plant ( for the +5 ac from barskin ) or trickery ( for improved concealment) but anything else works just fine, in my opinion.
Re: Build questions
I think that now with the changes to carrying cap (who made it easier to play character with low str) you CAN make a cleric with 13 base str (for divine might/shield) and focus on con and cha as your prime attributes (strength being raised to 18 by divine power anyway) and STILL being able to carry full plate and tower shield reliably.
Warning: Cha clerics are annoying to lvl, but have the highest power cap pretty much.
For domains I would take travel/war and RP it as a battle priest none the less.
Warning: Cha clerics are annoying to lvl, but have the highest power cap pretty much.
For domains I would take travel/war and RP it as a battle priest none the less.
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