Wizzy build

[homestuff]

Doing a little planning on my Wizards build and have a few questions for the more build savy

Pros & cons of 30 wizard vs a 26/4 split?
(general outline is 4 spell foci, + 3 other feats)

Assuming 26/4 build, what is the advantage of each 4 level dip class?
(ranger vs rouge vs bard vs something else?)

how useful is Arcane defence: Abj?


thanks!

[Peppermint]

Arcane Defense: Abjuration isn't bad, but there are usually better options.

I favor the Wizard 26/Bard 4 split.

Wizard 30
Pros
- Highest caster level
- One more pre-epic feat than Wizard/Bard and Wizard/Rogue
Cons
- No tumble, no discipline, meaning squishy
- No UMD
- Caster levels have diminishing returns in epic levels

Note: from an optimization perspective, going pure wizard is never worth it.

Wizard 26/Bard 4
Pros
- Taking bard pre-epic pushes 20th level wizard feat back into epic levels, netting the same number of epic feats as a pure wizard in exchange for one pre-epic feat
- Discipline and Tumble make you significantly less squishy
- UMD for artifact and divine scroll use
Cons
- One less pre-epic feat than Wizard 30 and Wizard 27/Ranger 3
- Slightly less CL than pure wizard

Wizard 26/Rogue 4
Pros
- Same feat coverage as Wizard 26/Bard 4
- Tumble and UMD
- Evasion
- Greater skill selection (e.g. open lock, disable traps)
Cons
- One less pre-epic feat than Wizard 30 and Wizard 27/Ranger 3
- No Discipline makes you very squishy
- Greensteel not an option (though this matters less now that Greensteel has been nerfed)

Wizard 27/Ranger 3
- Can take an Epic Spell Focus on the first ranger level, netting the same number of pre-epic and epic feats as a pure wizard
- Discipline
- One more caster level than Wizard 26/Bard 4 variant
Cons
- No Tumble or UMD

[Iceborn]

To add, Rogue nets you access to Thieves Cant and Ranger to Animal.

[gilescorey]

To add, Rogue nets you access to Thieves Cant and Ranger to Animal.

You can also go bard, and take an Unseelie fey pact for Animal language, but these are all relatively minor things

[dallion43]

I favor the Wizard 26/Bard 4 split.

The above.
On a 30 lvl cap, DC/etc based wizard, with extra SP available, the above all the way.
The loss of 4 CL is minor due to current mechanics of breach, TS, IGMS, etc.
Consider a Con/Int(Check add. spell table for how much int) based wizard. DC is unreliable, while IGMS+AS is reliable, some AC to avoid 3rd and 4th attack per round(50% DPR) + HP bank + GR from scroll.
You will probably encounter more SC items + Uni saves on PCs with the latest basin changes making the above a valid option to consider.

Imho.

P.C
To memorize one/two songs for bard RP, put it into your NwN PC notes :p.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

Wizard + Non-evil + Harper Mage = Gain Appraise, Bluff, Discipline, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Pick Pocket, and Tumble. Also gain Eschew Materials, and never pay for spell components again. Also, Auto-Quicken I.

And maintain caster level, too.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Wizard/SD.

HiPS Wob wob wob wob wob

[Rwby]

Do Paladin.
Or Cleric.

Because optimisation isn't everything!

[gilescorey]

Do Paladin.
Or Cleric.

Because optimisation isn't everything!

Maybe the guy just wants to play a wizard, man. Is that so wrong.

[Rwby]

Do Paladin.
Or Cleric.

Because optimisation isn't everything!

Maybe the guy just wants to play a wizard, man. Is that so wrong.

That was the idea.
Wizard/Paladin
Wizard/Cleric!

[Cortex]

why tho

[gilescorey]

wizard/weapon master, best rp

[Hunter548]

Do Paladin.
Or Cleric.

Because optimisation isn't everything!

why are you answering a question about optimization about with "optimization isn't everything"

Like, sure, maybe those are fun to rp if that's how the RP goes, but op asked specifically about optimizing.

why

[homestuff]

Hehe thanks guys!
this is super helpfull.
Character is already made, and the muli-class is almost entirely for certain skills related to his RP (spot/Stealth/ ect). But I have enough points for either discipline somthing else afterwards I think. When investing in discipline how important is additional skillpoints via items? is it an all or nothing skill. Or will the point investment itself be worth it?

Thanks again guys!

[dallion43]

Take discipline as a dump skill(Meaning maximize it). Even if you don't PvP many mobs have knok.
You will need discipline items even with GSF:Dis, due to low strength.
Even "point investment itself" without anything else helps because it is a passive chance to resist knok. There is a big difference between being on the floor after a TS scroll or just being on the floor until you die.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Scurvy Cur said it to me best.

With no discipline, you will get knocked down by that level 10 monk and level 30 WM in equal measure.

So some discipline or none is 100% worthwhile, unless you want to get shamed by noobs spamming IKD.

[Hunter548]

Yeah, zero discipline mages will die frequently to people a third of their level with IKD. It's kind of absurd how needed a disc dump is.

[Astral]

27 wiz, 3 bard. Definitely seems most optimized. Wizard is also the ideal class to take auto still spell, in case you want to do a spell blade rp and bard gives tumble, discipline, and allows a magic related feat which is a big deal in epic lvls imo. The rogue alternative, perhaps, offers a bit more utility (artefects, search, disarm/open, etc) but the bard dip is more 'optimized' by far.

[vaclavc]

27/3 builds are certainly very good, but huge problem (at least for me), is that in oder to really optimize them, you need to take the first dip class level at 28. It is too late for me, I rarely get my characters that far.
26/4 builds are more practical, as you can go wizard 18 - dip class 3 - wizard 8 - dip class 1 for earlier skill dumping and smoother playthrough.
Regarding specific dip classes, I prefer ranger or bard. No discipline on rogue makes it rather poor tasting dip.

-V-

[Peppermint]

27/3 Wizard/Bard is inferior to 26/4, due to the fact that the latter can push the 20th level wizard feat back into epic levels and still skill dump, whereas the former cannot.

[Astral]

That's true for wizards, yes. Also if you take 3 bard lvls pre-epic I think you get a 3rd apr, just a fun fact.

[Peppermint]

You don't. You need 4 bard levels pre-epic for a fourth apr.

[Astral]

It's late . I should sleep.