Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals?

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Rooshy41
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Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals?

Post by Rooshy41 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:34 pm

So as the question in the title states.. I've been playing a druid for quite some time now and I've always found it strange that despite being a naturewalker and one who communes with animals, every SINGLE low level animal still rushes to their deaths at my druid :c. This is quite a bummer for a number of reasons.

1) It's kind of annoying having to stop and kill EVERY small critter under the sun as a druid.
2) I've had plenty of instances where others have stopped to actually question why I was attacking animals (It's kind of hard to RP out of mechanical things such as that)
3) It would be awesome if animals DIDN'T attack you when you were a higher level druid.

So using this as a point to begin, what do the rest of you think of this? Do you find it weird as well? Do you think that this is something that perhaps should be suggested to the BOX o' Suggestions? And if so, how do you think would be the best way to mechanically change it?

I personally think that animal empathy could be changed, and perhaps at a certain level in the druid class that low levels stop rushing their deaths at you.

Let the discussion begin :D.
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Sab1 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:41 pm

Not really since druids are about balance. A druid easily can justify killing an animal, maybe it's starving and you're putting out of its misery, trying to prevent over crowding, etc... An evil druid may have no issues what so ever sending a 100 wolves to their deaths to kill hunters, if it means in the long run nature would be better for it. Animals dying is part of the natural order of things, it more about making sure the population for the animals doesn't get too large or too low.

Rangers are more likely to have the "these are my woods no animal will be harmed what so ever in them" mentality.

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Rooshy41
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Rooshy41 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:47 pm

So you think its totally justifiable RP wise for a druid to walk around and kill all the animals that rush at it?
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Troglodyte Kisses » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:58 pm

Sab1 wrote: A druid easily can justify killing an animal, maybe it's starving and you're putting out of its misery, trying to prevent over crowding, etc...
Here's a good example.

Druids exist to protect & serve nature, not necessarily the wildlife or the trees (That would be the Lorax's job). Sometimes you've got to cull some invasive wildlife to protect the local food chain, or clear out some overgrowth to keep a fire from taking out the whole forest.
Mithreas wrote:Not to mention, improving the AI will upset the balance of pretty much every area in the module. That was always what scared me off it :)
yellowcateyes wrote:Is there a balance to be upset?
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by One Two Three Five » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:05 pm

Druids are protectors of the balance, that is, of the entire world. Not the deer population: the planet.

My druids hunt and kill animals on purpose for the same reason conservationists do in real life: if you don't, they overrun, get sick, and wipe out entirely. (Simplified as hell, but you get the idea.) It's absolutely not weird, and things hunting, killing, and eating each other is super normal. Keep in mind that deities like Malar are druid gods as well.
So you think its totally justifiable RP wise for a druid to walk around and kill all the animals that rush at it?
In the exact same way it's justifiable rp-wise for good aligned characters to walk around and kill all the humans that rush at them. More so, since animals aren't exactly thinking sentient creatures and whatnot.
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Tourmaline » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:24 pm

Are we setting it up in this world that druids have some Dr. Doolittle ability to be friend to all animals, or are they just people with some affinity and magical ability to communicate?

Either way animal life is extremely violent so it doesn't seem weird they'd still attack druids. Animals attack each other all the time, even (or especially) their own kind. It would be cool if there was some high level druid perk like being able to mass calm or fear animals though.
Last edited by Tourmaline on Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:50 pm

I'd love if it druids could have an Animal Empathy aura, instead of actively using the skill.

I.e.
as they enter each zone, the server rolls an AE check. If a druid beats it, all "animals" are neutral. You could add in varying degrees of success, where perhaps only 'just' beating it causes animals to flee or whatnot.

Because realistically, an epic level druid should never have to fight a badger.
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Memelord » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:55 pm

Rooshy41 wrote:So you think its totally justifiable RP wise for a druid to walk around and kill all the animals that rush at it?
It rushed at you. Clearly, its survival instincts were poor. You're doing the gene pool a favor.

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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Sab1 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:28 pm

Rooshy41 wrote:So you think its totally justifiable RP wise for a druid to walk around and kill all the animals that rush at it?

Of course, nature is dangerous and druids understand that. There is a difference between defending yourself and just running about the woods killing every animal the druid sees.

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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by DarkDreamer » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:37 pm

My druid holds no hesitation on killing the rabid animals as they are clearly infected with some strange virus, but other animals he will seek to tame and sooth as a druid.

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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Rooshy41 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:21 am

It would be nice to have a mechanic where you could cause the lower level animals to ignore you, or flee. It would both make sense as a lore thing: druids who can communicate with animals tell them to shove off or make the animals fear you, and from a mechanical perspective: high level druids won't have to deal with all the clutter.

Now as for what Tourmaline said:
Tourmaline wrote:Are we setting it up in this world that druids have some Dr. Doolittle ability to be friend to all animals, or are they just people with some affinity and magical ability to communicate?

Either way animal life is extremely violent so it doesn't seem weird they'd still attack druids. Animals attack each other all the time, even (or especially) their own kind. It would be cool if there was some high level druid perk like being able to mass calm or fear animals though.
I'm by no means gunning for that in the first part of what you said, instead more or less agreeing with you on the last part.
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by One Two Three Five » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:32 am

It'd be nice to have a little less of 'The World's Bravest Wolves/Bandits' on any high level character, honestly.
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Rwby » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:35 am

One Two Three Five wrote:It'd be nice to have a little less of 'The World's Bravest Wolves/Bandits' on any high level character, honestly.
This is a thing. Stepping foot outside Wharftown and having to murder _30_ bandits, again and again on the same map with no regard for their survival and no chance on a daily basis strains credibility.

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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by DarkDreamer » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:37 am

I believe there IS a way to give the animals an AI that causes them to become feared if your char is too high level where they run off to hide/gather reinforcements (See goblins and gibberlings)

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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Rooshy41 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:01 am

What do you mean by (See goblins and gibberlings)?
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by DarkDreamer » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:06 am

While wolverines wouldn't go looking for reinforcements, goblins, gibberlings would.

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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by WithoutEffort » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:18 am

Here are some different ways of coping or thinking about it:

- Use Animal Empathy, player tool, send the animal far away before releasing domination and then do the same to the others.
- Use spells like Sleep, Entanglement, Grease, Charm Animal, Dominate Animal, Hold Monster, Stonehold, non-lethal spells to slow or stop the animals so that you can escape them.
- Be stealthy or avoid the spots where animals spawn. Your druid will eventually learn where animals are more likely to be.
- Stand back and let your animals attack, because maybe they're protective of you or territorial.
- Think about reasons for why it is ok to defend yourself against attacking animals. Or why their death is acceptable. Killing an animal here and there when it tries to kill you? Perhaps that is just the cycle of life and death playing out as it was supposed to. Survival is an important part of nature. And don't forget that nature is incredibly violent ALL the time. All living things are either hunting or being hunted. There is always a predator ready to kill them.

It's an opportunity for you to consider your RP as a druid. Is your druid ok with killing animals like this? If so, why? If not, why not? If not, how will he act in order to prevent their deaths? If he ends up killing some, how will it affect him? If he's ok with it, how many is he willing to kill before he's not ok with it? Would he consider going a different route or traveling less often through the forest in order to save the lives of more animals? Just keep asking questions of yourself and your character and you'll find more compelling reasons for the RP of your druid.
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Rooshy41 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:23 am

It's not really the RP reasons that get to me, It would just be nice to have mechanic where you DIDN'T have to kill every animal in the game.
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Iceborn » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:33 am

Memelord wrote:
Rooshy41 wrote:So you think its totally justifiable RP wise for a druid to walk around and kill all the animals that rush at it?
It rushed at you. Clearly, its survival instincts were poor. You're doing the gene pool a favor.
HAaaaaaaaaahah.
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by WithoutEffort » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:47 am

Rooshy41 wrote:It's not really the RP reasons that get to me, It would just be nice to have mechanic where you DIDN'T have to kill every animal in the game.
WithoutEffort wrote:- Use Animal Empathy, player tool, send the animal far away before releasing domination and then do the same to the others.
- Use spells like Sleep, Entanglement, Grease, Charm Animal, Dominate Animal, Hold Monster, Stonehold, non-lethal spells to slow or stop the animals so that you can escape them.
- Be stealthy or avoid the spots where animals spawn. Your druid will eventually learn where animals are more likely to be.
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Mithreas » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:50 am

I think on FL I added code to make animals non hostile if you have animal empathy. Can't remember whether that change is live it :)
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by DM Symphony » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:09 am

It is and has been for a while, however, the change to allow higher proportion druids and rangers to be non hostile is not live.

This is something that has always bothered me on every server, though, really. I think the herbivore behavior script could be expanded or duplicated over to some default omnivore/carnivore varieties, with different levels of stock friendliness.

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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Peppermint » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:01 am

IMO, changes should be addressed at animal AI, not at druids.

Animals are not usually aggressive toward humanoids. Aggressive animals generally exist in an unbalanced population, so it doesn't strike me as odd that a druid would defend himself against such creatures.

Moreover, you can't be a part of the natural order while actively avoiding it and/or trying to subvert its base instincts. If anything, it seems super weird that a druid wouldn't kill any animals.

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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by Rooshy41 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:07 pm

Peppermint wrote: Moreover, you can't be a part of the natural order while actively avoiding it and/or trying to subvert its base instincts. If anything, it seems super weird that a druid wouldn't kill any animals.
Fair enough, changes to the AI would be nice. But as some of the others said, it would also be awesome if there was some sort of fear aura for higher level characters vs. extremely lower level monsters.
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Re: Does anyone else find it weird that Druids fight animals

Post by If Valor Were Inches » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:46 pm

An update to the AI is what I want most. it's silly to watch an archer lull them one at a time.

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