Earthquake

[Diilicious]

Earthquake
Now deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage / Caster Level at a max of 30d6 for pure casters. In addition to this the spell also has a Reflex save to beat or targets in the AoE will be knocked down for half a round (3 seconds).

does this still hurt everybody in the AoE?

[ActionReplay]

Earthquake
Now deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage / Caster Level at a max of 30d6 for pure casters. In addition to this the spell also has a Reflex save to beat or targets in the AoE will be knocked down for half a round (3 seconds).

does this still hurt everybody in the AoE?

Yes!

[pigman]

Talassan Cleric Karlos approves

[Diilicious]

uh, this is not much use unless you are completely alone then, you cant just be going around doing potentially 180 damage to party members in the middle of combat when they are already taking damage, can this not be made into a spell that doesnt hurt party members, like ... all the other AoE spells?

the meteor spell was made to not hurt party members, and that spell would be totally unpredictable.. :S

[Orian_666]

I think the reason for this change was to make the damage of earthquake more balanced for the cost. ie it's a high level spell that costs piety to cast, before this change there were lower level spells that were more effective at the same thing.
As for Meteor Swarm the reason that doesn't hurt allies anymore is because that's how it was on PnP, you could choose where the meteors would land so you'd know who to hurt, not unpredictable at all.

[Diilicious]

It was pretty garbage before, honestly. it needed a buff, but again unless you're solo'ing dungeons this spell just isnt helpful.

[Sab1]

My drow priestess would have had no issues using this near friendlies. Also makes sense that if the ground starts shaking, everyone should be making saves.

[Diilicious]

im sorry but if you have the ability to PICK TARGETS WITH METEORS FROM SPACE, then you should be able to not make the ground shake underneath people you dont want it to.

[Iceborn]

Eh, it evens out.
One spell can be controlled, the other can't.

[Flameborn]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/meteorSwarm.htm

"When you cast it, four 2-foot-diameter spheres spring from your outstretched hand and streak in straight lines to the spots you select."

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/earthquake.htm

"The earthquake affects all terrain, vegetation, structures, and creatures in the area."

[Peppermint]

It's a spell that does decent damage, completely ignores spell resistance (including spell mantles), and completely debilitates targets when it fully connects. I'm sure someone can find a use for it. You know, like when fighting mages. Especially when fighting mages.

It's risk vs. reward. Just don't use it if your party has more low reflex casters than the enemies, obviously.

[Scurvy Cur]

Or do. Be a druid embracing darwinism. Those weaklings should have build reflexes.

[dallion43]

105 average-30(premonition) = ~ 75 damage per spell versus sorc/wiz, give caster cler/druid builds some alternative to mord/l.breach UMD approach (Due to massive amount of SMantles). While less damage then IGSM, if you survived TS(Prays,if lucky), you can possibly outlast the wizard/sorc depending on the spell rotation use and skill of the player. (Reflex isn't the highest save on most casters).
Won't do much against high reflex save sorc/wiz due to ~34.5 damage average = still need UMD to breach Premonition to bring the damage to ~64.5.
The knok can serve vs any non dex oriented PCs with high burst like WM, Lvl 8/9 evocation spell will have a high DC.

While not gamebreaking it does bring the caster druid/cler build back on the table, plus allow non monk(AC) divine casters stand against WMs, that what class balance is all about no?

Edited.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

On the tangent of meteor swarm...

I don't feel it should be party-friendly, either. A cursory inspection of the srd text used to rationalize the change, in its entirety, points out that it's four overlapping explosions of 6d6 fire damage, with a reflex save for each one. Did I mention each explosion is 40 feet in radius?

[Peppermint]

Right, but you can also aim those away from the target, if you want.

Though regardless, PnP doesn't always translate to D&D. Doing the spell that way would render it pretty bad, since it doesn't have a niche and/or disabler component to accompany it.

[Scurvy Cur]

Also, earthquake doesn't need to justify its existence against maximized IGMS as a slot peer. Meteor swarm does.

[Sab1]

Right, but you can also aim those away from the target, if you want.

Though regardless, PnP doesn't always translate to D&D. Doing the spell that way would render it pretty bad, since it doesn't have a niche and/or disabler component to accompany it.

They can aim it and should, but my experience is most mages are lazy with MS and just launch it down on the largest group of people. For me any spell that damages an area imo should damage all in the area. If a mage is lazy with their targeting a MS, I think the party should pay. This coming from someone who has died a few times from mages who didn't consider their party when casting. I have gotten a few tells saying, sorry I forgot you were there.

Maybe the tower should hold more responsible casting classes.

[Hunter548]

They can aim it and should, but my experience is most mages are lazy with MS and just launch it down on the largest group of people. For me any spell that damages an area imo should damage all in the area. If a mage is lazy with their targeting a MS, I think the party should pay.

Meteor Swarm's AoE is so large it's pretty much impossible to aim - And requires you to stand in the middle of wherever you're aiming.

[-XXX-]

There are many spells and abilities that are more suitable for soloing (btw. why is this a bad thing? Some people like soloing) and/or are only efficient when the party consists of certain class/race combinations (For example: want to spam Evard's? Sure, but better make sure the front-liners are hin/gnome (or ther UD variants)).

[Hunter548]

There are many spells and abilities that are more suitable for soloing (btw. why is this a bad thing? Some people like soloing) and/or are only efficient when the party consists of certain class/race combinations (For example: want to spam Evard's? Sure, but better make sure the front-liners are hin/gnome (or ther UD variants)).

Wasting a level 9 slot on a damage spell when trying to solo as a mage is an even sillier idea.

[-XXX-]

I was referring to earthquake, which is not even a mage spell. IMO it's not so bad for clerics now

[Hunter548]

Oh, fair enough. My bad then.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

Right, but you can also aim those away from the target, if you want.

Though regardless, PnP doesn't always translate to D&D. Doing the spell that way would render it pretty bad, since it doesn't have a niche and/or disabler component to accompany it.

Even if you aim the spell off-center of your intended target, it's a 40 foot radius spread. You're talking about an aoe large enough to fry hundreds of creatures, for each sphere. In most closed rooms and hallways hitting your target while not hitting yourself or your allies should literally be impossible.

I understand that many PnP spells don't translate identically to NWN. This, however, is one of the very few instances (besides Burning Hands, which I also disagree with, by the way) where the spell has been rendered SUPERIOR to its PnP counterpart.

24d6 (with an extra 2d6 to one creature for each ranged touch attack you make up to four times) that must be aimed around your party.

Versus 30d8 blanket party friendly damage.

My highest level character is an evocation specialist. His son is a Trueflame. It's not like I don't benefit from this change. I just think it's a bit much. Meteor swarm has gone from a VERY situational ninth level damage spell, to the single most potent damaging ninth level spell an arcane caster can cast, superior even to an empowered delayed blast fireball, which only does up to 30d6 fire damage in a single fireball burst, not party friendly.

But, I mean, I'm not gonna cry if it gets kept where it's at. I might put together a wizard mercenary party and demonstrate what can be done with it, though.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Yeah but you're forgetting about Elemental Buffer and Protection from Elements and a Reflex Save.

Sure it's great against fire vulnerable creatures but I don't think it topples King IGMS. It just now isn't such a terribad alternative.

I'm all for more less-terrible alternatives to IGMS.

[Hunter548]

It's worth noting that P&P doesn't have IGMS, and Meteor Swarm's pretty garbage in P&P to anyways.

It's at least worth casting now, though I still don't think it'll be all that useful outside of fire-vuln areas. Certainly not in pvp outside of war-circumstance 10 on 10 brawls.