The Importance of Overwhelming Critical

[milosr]

Howdy,

I'v been pondering making a WM for a while now. And I have some questions...
Just how important is Overwhelming critical, in the following example:

Would an Overwhelming Critical Scimitar build do more damage than a non-overwhelming critical build with a greatsword?

The Question is because I'v been meaning to actually...put 13 levels into WM, so as to get a SECOND Weapon of choice, so that in theory I could swap between a scimitar and a greatsword. While getting precious AB from 13WM levels.

In short, to avoid any confusion, the build is listed down under.

Human
1 Fighter - Dodge, Weapon focus scimitar, Weapon focus Greatsword
2 Fighter - expertise
3 Fighter - mobility
4 Fighter - weapon spec scimitar
5 Fighter -
6 Fighter - Spring attack, Whirlwind
7 WM -
8 WM -
9 WM - Improved Critical scimitar
10 WM -
11 WM -
12 WM - Knockdown
13 WM -
14 WM -
15 WM - Blind Fight
16 WM -
17 Fighter
18 Fighter Imp Expertise, Imp critical greatsword
19 Fighter
20 Fighter Disarm
21 Fighter EWF Scimitar
22 Fighter Epic Spec Scimitar
23 WM
24 WM EWF Greatsword
25 WM Weapon of Choice:Greatsword, +1AB
26 Fighter
27 Fighter Spec Greatsword, Armor Skin/Epic Spec Greatsword/Improved Disarm
28 Rogue
29 Rogue
30 Rogue Improved Disarm/Armor Skin/Epic Spec Greatsword

Legit or not?...and will it do less damage than your ye-olde scimi build?

[earthsong309]

It's not at all important. Honestly, you'll be dishing out so much damage that an extra what... 2d6 (that's an average of 7 damage points) is going to go unnoticed. So if you're critting 50% of the time, you'll be missing out on a total of 14 physical damage a round provided you're not hasted. This is in light of doing around 250 damage per round without overwhelming crit, so yeah.

Remember, this isn't WoW where people are watching their DPS meters in competition with one another. Even if I'm wrong with the numbers above, I'd still recommend variety over power, because scimmy weapon masters do get boring fairly quickly in my experience. Don't let a few DPS points get in the way of the vision you have for your character!

[milosr]

Hold on so...overwhelming critical bonus DMG isn't scaled by the crit?...I thought it was.

[earthsong309]

I actually don't know how it works. I'm taking the wiki's word at face value, and the wiki says it adds 2d6 damage to your critical hits. Either way, I would still suggest you favor theme over power.

On another note, I wish scimitar wasn't the go-to weapon of choice for WMs. They are so... boring...

EDIT: per wiki
Despite the game description, overwhelming critical actually adds an additional 1d6 for a total of (critical multiplier)d6 extra damage.

[Freyason]

More damage is nice, but I found plenty better things to add on my WM, specially considering OC prerequisites.

[vaclavc]

WM is all about dishing out as much damage as possible, spread over as many crits as possible. I would definitely take overwhelming critical, beacause 2d6 damage is nothing to sneeze at.
Choose scimitar over GS, ditch Improved disarm and pick some other feats like IKD.
-V-

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

Overwhelming critical adds 1d6 damage per critical multiplier, per crit.

In other words, it is more worthwhile the higher the crit multiplier is, and most effective on a scythe, for an extra 4d6 damage per crit (average 14.) On a weaponmaster, this becomes an extra 5d6 bonus damage when they gain their extra multiplier.

While people may not be competing for best DPS like in WoW, sometimes the concept is to do as much damage as possible per hit/crit.

How worthwhile it is is in the eye of the beholder. If your build is all about getting as much damage as possible per swing, it's hard to argue against extra damage. If your build is about variety, you can probably do better things with an extra epic feat. (Epic prowess comes to mind, for an extra +1 ab on both weapons.)

[Memelord]

If you're playing a 2-hander WM, your only purpose in life is - already - dealing lots and lots of damage. So you have no excuse to NOT take Overwhelming Critical for that extra 3-18 DMG on a greatsword critical.

It's less important on 1-hander scimitar builds because they tend to focus more on being versatile and survivable while still maintaining solid DPS.

[earthsong309]

Is there a weaponmaster on Arelith that isn't focused in scimitar, scythe, greatsword or kukri?

I get that the "appeal" of the class is big numbers, and that these are the weapons that provide the biggest numbers, but there is a real dearth of variety here that I find kind of disappointing.

This is mainly why I have avoided making a weapon master since I started on this server over a decade ago. Even paladins and blackguards are sporting scimmies 90% of the time.

[Lorkas]

There's a few dwarf WMs that focus in some kind of axe.

[High Primate]

Is there a weaponmaster on Arelith that isn't focused in scimitar, scythe, greatsword or kukri?

Yeah, rapier. See WM: Scimitar.

[earthsong309]

There's a few dwarf WMs that focus in some kind of axe.

Dwarves are always the exception.

[Mango Reinhardt]

I play often with a current character whom is a Warhammer WM. Is it optimal? No. But is it awesome? You bet!

[If Valor Were Inches]

There's a few dwarf WMs that focus in some kind of axe.

Dwarves are always the exception.

Its because they smell too much for anyone to sell them any other weapon.

[Cortex]

Overwhelming Critical is good to have if you're a DPS, should always try to stick it in here if you got the feats.

[Meliboeus]

I agree with Cortex. Why turn down free damage? What are you getting in return?

[Iceborn]

Personality?

[Durvayas]

Is there a weaponmaster on Arelith that isn't focused in scimitar, scythe, greatsword or kukri?

I get that the "appeal" of the class is big numbers, and that these are the weapons that provide the biggest numbers, but there is a real dearth of variety here that I find kind of disappointing.

My drow WM uses shortswords because i like the aesthetic. My brother uses a spear on his duergar WM.

Non scimmy 1h WM exist, but they are a rare breed because everyone is too focused on the meta of squeezing every point of damage out of their PC as possible. Everyone wants to be THE wm that wins the most fights and solos the most content. I don't fault them for wanting their PC to be badass, but i can't help but feel like the server does suffer a lack of variety as a result of the must-win mentality.

[gilescorey]

That feel when I just think scimitars are the most aesthetic weapon.

Longswords are ugly boxes on hilts, bastard swords are World of Warcraft meme weapons, battleaxes have one cool model. Rapiers are a girl/Elf weapon.

[Iceborn]

bastard swords are World of Warcraft meme weapons

i kil u

[Trunx]

I agree with Cortex. Why turn down free damage? What are you getting in return?

Saves.

[Cortex]

I agree with Cortex. Why turn down free damage? What are you getting in return?

Saves.

I had this argument with Scurvy, he showed that you can get OvCrit and still get more than enough saves.

[Trunx]

I agree with Cortex. Why turn down free damage? What are you getting in return?

Saves.

I had this argument with Scurvy, he showed that you can get OvCrit and still get more than enough saves.

What's "more than enough"? And what are you giving up? Because a WM with no save feats needs several artifacts to get good saves without sacrificing other things.

[Cortex]

I'll let him display it if he wants, I don't recall the specifics, but it all checked out. I'll ping this thread to him.

Edit: That said, you can also go for more saves for a "cheaper" build to equip.

[Scurvy Cur]

Alright, checking in to deliver the tl/dr on the super munchkin minmaxed WM. I'll throw the full build together properly for anyone that's interested, but that's happening later. Work followed me home today so I'm gonna be a little on the busy end.

Basically, you shuffle some of the strength off of your gear, relying on fighter bonuses and skleens to bridge the gap. You do the same with a couple of points of Con, or alternatively get a stack of those +2 Con amulets and extort an enchanter to mess around with them. You cover any gaps in Con with dwarven ale, a dropped consumable that grants Greater Endurance, which stacks with vanilla endurance, any time PvP rears its head. In PvE you don't need to max Con out all the way; you'll be fine on 498 HP, so save those potions for PvP.

In the place of all the stuff you've edged off, you grab 5 points of unisaves. On the remaining 2 str/con items, you godsave +1 will, which has a calculated chance of something just under 5%, but above 0%, meaning it can be godsaved onto your stat/skills stuff.

You ditch toughness, which drops your HP from 558 to 528, but that's fine, you've still got plenty.

You take bard, dump and gear spellcraft, and you optionally grab an ESF in the skill; it's not strictly needed, but you have room.

Feat spread looks like:

WM prerequisites, imp expertise, KD, IKD, Blindfight, Weapon Spec, Imp Crit, Power Attack, Cleave, and Iron Will in pre epics.

Great cleave, EWF, EWS, A skin, Epic Prowess, Epic Will, OWC, and ESF: Spellcraft in epics.

This gets you to 39/33/32 vs spells, which is a far cry from perfect, but it'll serve to carry you through most stuff, especially since hold monster doesn't get past mid 30s from most casters.

If you really have to have better saves, it's also entirely possible to down an owl's and cat's potion for an extra +1-2. 39/35/34, for those keeping score.

If you're not too worried about melee threats, you can also swap to mithril armor. A helmet/shield swap can be done mid combat, and represents a trade of 2 AC for 2 Unisaves. 3 if you go in giving no fucks about melee threats, and also use the full plate. Obviously not appropriate for all situations, but when you're dealing with a situation that poses negligible melee threat but significant magic threat, this is a smart choice that you should make.

DISCLAIMER

This build is hard to gear right (not 5% gear hard, but still kinda tedious), and relies heavily on a couple of consumables, one of which (The dwarven ale) I think got removed from the drop tables of a certain family of spawns, after someone told the Devs just how strong it was; it's probably chest loot now. This is not how everyone likes to play, and I mostly threw it together to deal with the claim that it was impossible to get decent saves and owc at the same time. Somewhat tedious? Yes; Impossible? No. A build that eschews owc and loads up on even more static save bonuses will be more stable, easier to gear, and way more forgiving to play; for most players, I'd honestly recommend that, but the hybrid OWC option is possible.