Necromancy Question
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Necromancy Question
I know how the Necromancy line of spells works for summons with SF, GSF, and ESF but there is a little bit of confusion on the Wiki with regards to the Epic Spell: Mummy Dust. On the Spell Changes page (http://wiki.arelith.com/Spell_changes) it says that getting the spell unlocks Tier 4 of the summoning line and acts as any other undead summoning spell. However, on the Feat Changes page (http://wiki.arelith.com/Feat_changes) it says that it grants access to the strongest tier of undead summons but the spell itself doesn't exist.
I'm leaning towards believing the spell page since I know I have seen mages with 3 undead summons around and the Epic Spell is the only way for them to have a 3rd summon as the way I understand it. Could someone clarify this?
I'm leaning towards believing the spell page since I know I have seen mages with 3 undead summons around and the Epic Spell is the only way for them to have a 3rd summon as the way I understand it. Could someone clarify this?
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Re: Necromancy Question
It sounds like the spell can be cast, but won't summon a special undead, instead summoning three undead from your character's "stream". The wiki suggests that no matter what summoning spell you cast, the creatures' power will be dependent on Undead Caster Level, so casting Mummy Dust would produce the same effect as casting Animate Dead.
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Re: Necromancy Question
That's what I thought, next question: do the necromancy changes apply to Pale Master summons or just the spells?
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Re: Necromancy Question
What TRM said, I didn't know how to word it better back then.
And I would think that only spells, but I don't know for certain.
And for clarification:
Spell focus and the undead tiers are separated. You don't necessarily need both, but you'll want to have both.
Greater Spell focus nets you two undead, Epic spell focus gives you the third.
And Mummy Dust enables the last undead tier.
And I would think that only spells, but I don't know for certain.
And for clarification:
Spell focus and the undead tiers are separated. You don't necessarily need both, but you'll want to have both.
Greater Spell focus nets you two undead, Epic spell focus gives you the third.
And Mummy Dust enables the last undead tier.
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Re: Necromancy Question
Maybe all of the new undead summoning stuff could be compiled into a single page with charts and such, and references placed on the spell and feat changes pages, instead of partial descriptions.
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Re: Necromancy Question
Maybe. I wrote the section about Necromancy changes in Spell Changes, that involves nearly everything, but I wouldn't know what to make the chart of, and for.
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Re: Necromancy Question
*shrugs* I just like charts, as you can probably tell from the pages I've created/edited.
The Beginner's Guide to Factions
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Re: Necromancy Question
Misc Changes, with the Feats and Skills sublinks.
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Re: Necromancy Question
Can anyone confirm the bit about PM summons
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Re: Necromancy Question
All PM summons are simply different "spells" for summoning your usual tier undead. They don't summon anything different.
It makes Epic PM summons non-existent so it's not really worth going above 10 PM as a caster if you're wanting cool summons.
In the initial plan I think something was going to be done about the PM summon greater undead but it either was just hearsay or it was never got around too. (I.E a one use cast of tier 3 undead per rest)
It makes Epic PM summons non-existent so it's not really worth going above 10 PM as a caster if you're wanting cool summons.
In the initial plan I think something was going to be done about the PM summon greater undead but it either was just hearsay or it was never got around too. (I.E a one use cast of tier 3 undead per rest)
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Re: Necromancy Question
Really? That's a shame, but probably peppermint has something in store for pale masters.
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Re: Necromancy Question
Well my main question would be, can the PM summons be used as regular spells that work with the tier system thus freeing up spell slots for other things.
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Re: Necromancy Question
If what One Day Remains said is correct: Yes.
But as far as I know, it's not "summons", in plural.
The Pale Master summon undead ability allows for two uses a day, total.
So you could use Animate Dead, Summon Undead from pale master, and Mummy Dust to get three undead, in example. With all the epic feats, that is.
The issue with this is that if the Mummy Dust undead kicks the bucket (again!) you are short one undead unless you have another undead-summon spell prepared.
But as far as I know, it's not "summons", in plural.
The Pale Master summon undead ability allows for two uses a day, total.
So you could use Animate Dead, Summon Undead from pale master, and Mummy Dust to get three undead, in example. With all the epic feats, that is.
The issue with this is that if the Mummy Dust undead kicks the bucket (again!) you are short one undead unless you have another undead-summon spell prepared.
Misc Changes, with the Feats and Skills sublinks.
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Re: Necromancy Question
Curiosity!
Hypothetically speaking, a palemaster needs no spell focus in Necromancy to be a Palemaster, but it is completely possible for them to get epic spells, all the same.
If palemaster goes fifteen levels without any spell foci in necromancy, but advances their spellcraft and takes "epic spell mummy dust," it is clear from the information presented that they can only summon one undead at a time.
However, what tier will their undead be? Will they skip tiers two and three, and catapult straight to tier four....or does the mummy dust spell function as a "plus one" to the caster's tier, boosting them to tier two.... OR are they stuck at tier one unless they also take the spell foci?
Hypothetically speaking, a palemaster needs no spell focus in Necromancy to be a Palemaster, but it is completely possible for them to get epic spells, all the same.
If palemaster goes fifteen levels without any spell foci in necromancy, but advances their spellcraft and takes "epic spell mummy dust," it is clear from the information presented that they can only summon one undead at a time.
However, what tier will their undead be? Will they skip tiers two and three, and catapult straight to tier four....or does the mummy dust spell function as a "plus one" to the caster's tier, boosting them to tier two.... OR are they stuck at tier one unless they also take the spell foci?
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Re: Necromancy Question
I was counting their Animate Dead among the "summons" I was referencing. This would be cool if true.Iceborn wrote:If what One Day Remains said is correct: Yes.
But as far as I know, it's not "summons", in plural.
The Pale Master summon undead ability allows for two uses a day, total.
So you could use Animate Dead, Summon Undead from pale master, and Mummy Dust to get three undead, in example. With all the epic feats, that is.
The issue with this is that if the Mummy Dust undead kicks the bucket (again!) you are short one undead unless you have another undead-summon spell prepared.
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Re: Necromancy Question
That's actually a curious question, Aerlyn.
While Pale Master level count toward UCL, you could go Bard 15/ PM 15, freezing your UCL at 15 and reaching only tier 2, and take Mummy Dust. My bet would be that you skip to tier 4.
The spell foci are irrelevant in the matter. It's a complementary function, but not outright necessary.
Actually, let me clarify further.
The UCL is not exclusive for pale masters. UCL is either the cleric level, or the combination of sorcerer, wizard and PM levels.
*As far as I understand it.
Screw it. I'll make a table. I'LL DO IT!
While Pale Master level count toward UCL, you could go Bard 15/ PM 15, freezing your UCL at 15 and reaching only tier 2, and take Mummy Dust. My bet would be that you skip to tier 4.
The spell foci are irrelevant in the matter. It's a complementary function, but not outright necessary.
Actually, let me clarify further.
The UCL is not exclusive for pale masters. UCL is either the cleric level, or the combination of sorcerer, wizard and PM levels.
*As far as I understand it.
Screw it. I'll make a table. I'LL DO IT!
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Re: Necromancy Question
http://wiki.arelith.com/Spell_changes#N ... cy_changes
I DID IT.
ARE YOU PROUD OF ME, FATHER? DID I DO GOOD?
Jokes aside, I am not sure if I just butchered that section beyond recognition and I should commit seppuku or not.
I DID IT.
ARE YOU PROUD OF ME, FATHER? DID I DO GOOD?
Jokes aside, I am not sure if I just butchered that section beyond recognition and I should commit seppuku or not.
Misc Changes, with the Feats and Skills sublinks.
Available races
Spell Changes
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Command Guide
Take a look before asking your questions!
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Re: Necromancy Question
Yes, animate dead and summon (greater) undead both count as individual part of the Arelith undead summons. So if you can cast the wizard version of animate dead and have access to the PM animate dead they can both be cast to get 2 undead, provided you have the spell focus for it.Maladus wrote:I was counting their Animate Dead among the "summons" I was referencing. This would be cool if true.Iceborn wrote:If what One Day Remains said is correct: Yes.
But as far as I know, it's not "summons", in plural.
The Pale Master summon undead ability allows for two uses a day, total.
So you could use Animate Dead, Summon Undead from pale master, and Mummy Dust to get three undead, in example. With all the epic feats, that is.
The issue with this is that if the Mummy Dust undead kicks the bucket (again!) you are short one undead unless you have another undead-summon spell prepared.
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Re: Necromancy Question
As someone who plays way too many necromancers, here's how it works in rough detail, both in regards to number of undead, tiers, and as far as I know, also palemasters.
As stated by people earlier, your focus stage in necromancy dictates the amount of undead you summon.
What undead creature you specifically summon, is tied to your caster level. Capping at CL 16 for the 3rd tier, AKA wights/improved mummies pre-epic spell mummy dust.
Epic spell mummy dust will unlock the 4th tier, AKA vampires and mummy lords, and I've seen meele 10 fighter/4 bard/16 palemaster type builds use these, implying it does indeed function the same way for PMs, although usually with only two undead present as they generally only net Greater Necromancy at most, rather than epic, even with access to the Mummy Dust feat.
Each individual undead is currently summoned by a separate spell, but based on your CL and presence or lack of the Mummy Dust feat. So casting Animate Dead, Create Undead and Mummy Dust in no specific order for example, will grant you one Vampire/Mummy Lord per cast to a total of 3, assuming ESF necro and mummy dust are both present on your sheet.
I really recommend tinkering with the undead. They're alot of fun! Arelith's honestly done the best job to make the necromancer/minion master type niche interesting out of any server I've played on.
As stated by people earlier, your focus stage in necromancy dictates the amount of undead you summon.
What undead creature you specifically summon, is tied to your caster level. Capping at CL 16 for the 3rd tier, AKA wights/improved mummies pre-epic spell mummy dust.
Epic spell mummy dust will unlock the 4th tier, AKA vampires and mummy lords, and I've seen meele 10 fighter/4 bard/16 palemaster type builds use these, implying it does indeed function the same way for PMs, although usually with only two undead present as they generally only net Greater Necromancy at most, rather than epic, even with access to the Mummy Dust feat.
Each individual undead is currently summoned by a separate spell, but based on your CL and presence or lack of the Mummy Dust feat. So casting Animate Dead, Create Undead and Mummy Dust in no specific order for example, will grant you one Vampire/Mummy Lord per cast to a total of 3, assuming ESF necro and mummy dust are both present on your sheet.
I really recommend tinkering with the undead. They're alot of fun! Arelith's honestly done the best job to make the necromancer/minion master type niche interesting out of any server I've played on.