Druid Elemental DR Change

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Dr_Hazard89
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by Dr_Hazard89 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:45 am

Wow. That's a long time for most totem druids to have been 'exploiting' without knowing it. Even did it myself for many many years, but the feat I cheesed to get was dodge which actually made my character suckier, because I suck.

I'm not going to hang around discord. Put information on the forums or I'm not going to see it.

#sorrynotsorry
Last edited by Dr_Hazard89 on Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BegoneThoth
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:02 am

Wytchee wrote:
BegoneThoth wrote:Not really, because the rule update happened months ago.

http://wiki.arelith.com/w/index.php?tit ... ldid=12257
Yet it was never addressed on the forums, which is my point.

What I should have said was this forum *should* serve as adequate for rule changes like this.

It shouldn't have to be necessary to sign into and constantly monitor Arelith's discord server to be privy to rule changes. They should be posted to the forums, as with any major wiki update.
I agree with you.
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MalKalz
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by MalKalz » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:58 am

We will make sure it is shared through the appropriate echannels, the forums being first. I’ll personally add it to my duties to ensure that the community is aware of changes or corrections to the wiki.

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Dreams
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by Dreams » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:44 am

Is the wiki what we should refer to for rules? Because this issue also came up with disguise rulings and a number of others. It would be better to get consolidated information about what is a rule and what is a shadow-rule written and accessible on the forums.

Also, what will happen to outstanding characters that have been built thinking this was ok? Chance to rebuild, grandfather, or mechanically having the feat removed?

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BegoneThoth
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:55 am

You should not refer to the wiki for rules. I was told to just hit the J key in game for a correct copy of the rules.
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Improv
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by Improv » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:16 am

BegoneThoth wrote:
I don't know what to tell you then when DM's talk in Discord and update policy. I feel that discord has become essentially mandatory nowadays, as you can't 'foig' such things and there's so little information about rules updates/clarifications that are made public outside of Discord.
That's insane. I'm not scrolling through pages and pages of memes and dumb or dirty jokes on Discord every day in case some rule gets changed. It should never, ever be mandatory to go to Discord or anything similar.

I think any rules change that affects players, even if it seems minor to those not involved, ought to make the forum updates section.

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Wytchee
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by Wytchee » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:30 am

DM Spyre wrote:We will make sure it is shared through the appropriate echannels, the forums being first. I’ll personally add it to my duties to ensure that the community is aware of changes or corrections to the wiki.
Thanks Spyre you rock. :P
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dallion43
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by dallion43 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:09 am

Damage reduction stacks with, and is applied after, both damage resistance and damage immunity. (So a creature with damage reduction 10/+5 and bludgeoning resistance 20/- will ignore the first 30 points of damage from each bludgeoning attack made with less than a +5 enhancement.)
Damage immunity is applied before damage resistance and damage reduction.
(c) nwn wiki.

So, 35% slashing/piercing, then 19/- then 30/5? Is that intended behavior?

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One Two Three Five
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by One Two Three Five » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:13 am

Why 35 and not 25?
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by dallion43 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:39 am

If a character has multiple immunities against the same element they are added together
(c) nwn wiki
Note that this is different than Wildshape merge for non-totem druids, which only merges the magical properties of armor, helmet and shield slots.
Earth 25% Slashing & Piercing Immunity
Arelith wiki

Second skin is the way to go with 30% slashing, but still, you should be able to get to 40% slashing/35% piercing with Masterly Elven Chain and Dwarven Rune Wall if you are a dwarf for example.
Unless, druid monolithic Eles shape in a special way and don't merge magical properties from armor.

Seven Sons of Sin
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:36 am

There really should be someone on the DEV-team who's in charge of the Arelith Wiki and the proper dissemination/cataloguing of information. I don't mean that critically, I mean that because there really is a metric crapton of information that's Arelith-specific, and the current Wiki is grotesque hodge-podge of server mechanics, FR lore, DnD lore, RPing tips, and otherwise.

It could do with some spreadsheets that exemplify what some NWN vs. Arelith mechanical changes actually mean.
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MalKalz
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by MalKalz » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:25 am

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:There really should be someone on the DEV-team who's in charge of the Arelith Wiki and the proper dissemination/cataloguing of information. I don't mean that critically, I mean that because there really is a metric crapton of information that's Arelith-specific, and the current Wiki is grotesque hodge-podge of server mechanics, FR lore, DnD lore, RPing tips, and otherwise.

It could do with some spreadsheets that exemplify what some NWN vs. Arelith mechanical changes actually mean.

This can likely be done. It will just take a bit of time.

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ActionReplay
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by ActionReplay » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:53 am

Sorry this was a silent update I added a few days ago. Thank yellowcatseyes who actually announced it.

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Sockss
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by Sockss » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:01 pm

It's worth noting that you won't be able to stack 5/- physical resistance items with these forms anymore. Which was particularly unhealthy.
Thankfully this team is no longer being used.

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dallion43
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by dallion43 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:51 pm

Now it stacks with premonition, but I just wanted to know if it was intended.

P.C
The person in charge of the wiki does wonders and most of the info is accurate and changes are reflected fast. For being unofficial resource with one person dealing with it arelith wiki is great. But yeah we all would appreciate maybe even not more elaborate but just all of the changes getting to updates topic :p.

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BegoneThoth
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:13 pm

dallion43 wrote:Now it stacks with premonition, but I just wanted to know if it was intended.

P.C
The person in charge of the wiki does wonders and most of the info is accurate and changes are reflected fast. For being unofficial resource with one person dealing with it arelith wiki is great. But yeah we all would appreciate maybe even not more elaborate but just all of the changes getting to updates topic :p.
It's one person?

http://wiki.arelith.com/Spellsword

The Shades tree still isn't updated on here, still possibly making people drop schools they wouldn't otherwise drop because they think Shades can give them access to imbues that don't actually work, even though the wiki says it works.

Of particular concern, the wiki needs to be more then 'unofficial' when it comes to Arelith specific content because that's the only place the info is. Telling people to find out in game their level 7 spells are non-functional for their intended purpose only after they grind their way there is no good.

The wiki needs to be up to date.
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One Two Three Five
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by One Two Three Five » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:20 pm

It's pretty much just been Iceborn (a player, not a dev or whatever) updating the wiki singlehandedly with occasional help for... years, now. Also, anyone can sign up to edit the wiki, so if you want it to be updated more regularly, well, there's your answer.
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BegoneThoth
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:24 pm

I would, but I don't have the access or resources to know when the wiki is wrong about critical issues, such as stat rules or what spells work for spellsword. I only find out way after the fact, in the case of the druid thing, I found out seven years after the wiki was erroneous. Telling me I should log in to fix it is not a solution to what's clearly a problem.
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One Two Three Five
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by One Two Three Five » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:35 pm

I mean, I don't know anyone who knew about that druid-stat change uhhhh ever, so blaming the wiki editors is the wrong route. There's a specific group of people that should be posting rule changes publicly and accessibly. I only learned about it from a random forum response, for instance. A random player-maintained wiki isn't the bit to be concerned about.
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Improv
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by Improv » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:40 pm

I don't believe the Wiki was actually erroneous about being able to take a feat before taking totem for 9 or so years-- I remember when totems were introduced and the devs (I believe, Mithreas) specifically said it was okay to do this, though at that time the concern was power attack.

This is a rule change, primarily because of the new elemental shapes and that's fine! But let's not retroactively call people who did something legal exploiters and I hope any action to correct their build isn't too punitive..

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BegoneThoth
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:15 pm

One Two Three Five wrote:I mean, I don't know anyone who knew about that druid-stat change uhhhh ever, so blaming the wiki editors is the wrong route. There's a specific group of people that should be posting rule changes publicly and accessibly. I only learned about it from a random forum response, for instance. A random player-maintained wiki isn't the bit to be concerned about.
Not blaming the wiki editors. I'm saying we need to do something about the wiki being wrong and put of date on arelith specific mechanics, something I don't doubt the wiki editors don't always know about. It's, I feel, disingenuous to host erroneous information when there is simply no way to learn the right information, or even know what is wrong.

I'm asking we enforce a higher standard of truth, specifically for arelith specific mechanics, and ask that when classes or spells or rulings change, the individuals making those decisions should update the wiki on the things they just did.
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One Two Three Five
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by One Two Three Five » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:59 pm

Sure, but like Improv, I thought the wiki was accurate (and it was accurate when it was written) with regards to totem-feat-stuff until, oh, last month or so. I don't think 'enforcing a standard of truth' at all is on us as players, especially when such information isn't made available through any channel that's easy to find. And even if so, like, the wiki contributors have other stuff to do, I'm sure, and the usual response to 'well anyone can change it' is
Telling me I should log in to fix it is not a solution
Like someone has to, and I'm not sure iceborn is even around anymore. If you feel strongly about it, well.

Either way: It shouldn't be on players to try and keep rules, mechanics, etc updated when they are so often obfuscated, sometimes on purpose in the case of mechanics.

Edit: as an example. The free druid feat. It's not even in the update notes, but went live ages ago, and we've gotten at least 2 threads asking what the requirements are. That stuff should be in the update notes or the mechanical changes forum. It shouldn't be on us as players to put on the wiki or disseminate information that's barely given to us by the team.
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Lorkas
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by Lorkas » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:19 pm

The Shades tree still isn't updated on here, still possibly making people drop schools they wouldn't otherwise drop because they think Shades can give them access to imbues that don't actually work, even though the wiki says it works.
Check again. It was updated four days ago by Nives after your post in the other thread.
Telling me I should log in to fix it is not a solution to what's clearly a problem.
Yes it is. The entire wiki project is done by volunteers, so if you constantly complain about the work of those volunteers and refuse to put any work into it yourself, then you're just whining.

The problem as I see it is: no one is logging in and fixing it. If it bothers you, the way to fix it is to log on and fix it, not to sit around complaining because no one is fixing it. Are you talking about a different problem? And if so, what does it have to do with the volunteer-based wiki project?

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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by dallion43 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:21 pm

Don't shoot me but a simple example(after I googled it) of organized nwn shard update notes is here:
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpbb3/viewtop ... &start=200

The details can be asked on forums and or explained or not, bit every change is documented with update number.

I know we derailed from topic, but this will save RL months of time for some people ).

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BegoneThoth
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Re: Druid Elemental DR Change

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:26 pm

Lorkas wrote:
The Shades tree still isn't updated on here, still possibly making people drop schools they wouldn't otherwise drop because they think Shades can give them access to imbues that don't actually work, even though the wiki says it works.
Check again. It was updated four days ago by Nives after your post in the other thread.
Telling me I should log in to fix it is not a solution to what's clearly a problem.
Yes it is. The entire wiki project is done by volunteers, so if you constantly complain about the work of those volunteers and refuse to put any work into it yourself, then you're just whining.

The problem as I see it is: no one is logging in and fixing it. If it bothers you, the way to fix it is to log on and fix it, not to sit around complaining because no one is fixing it. Are you talking about a different problem? And if so, what does it have to do with the volunteer-based wiki project?
My phone grabbed a cached page I guess and didn't show the latest update. My bad.

On the second point, how do I know when something is wrong? Specifically for arelith specific content on which the wiki is the only reference? FOIG? Discord?

As was said, the druid page was encouraging a rule break for seven years. How was anyone supposed to know it was illegal and characters need to be deleted/remade due to level one power attack?
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