How important is improved KD?

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Lost in the dark
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How important is improved KD?

Post by Lost in the dark » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:23 pm

I have a full BAB melee build and two feats to choose pre-epic. How much will I be gimped if I ignore IKD + one other (from whirlwind attack, great cleave, toughness, called shot etc) and go left field like unarmed strike and deflect arrows?

Thoughts very welcome.

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greatfanfare
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by greatfanfare » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:39 pm

If you like to have frost and fire giant shamans on their back, very important.

For me at least, on a meleer, IKD before called shot.

Lost in the dark
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by Lost in the dark » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:44 pm

Makes sense to me. Thanks.

CookieMonster
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by CookieMonster » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:50 pm

Dragons too! No better way to keep a Dragon at bay than an IKD spam!
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Sab1
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by Sab1 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:03 pm

Being able to KD a dragon seems rather odd to me.

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susitsu
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by susitsu » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:03 pm

I don't even think it's supposed to be possible in the description of IKD, but it happens anyway.

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High Primate
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by High Primate » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:59 am

Sab1 wrote:Being able to KD a dragon seems rather odd to me.
They're called kneecaps.
Some builds I've worked on (not recommended):
Charisma Battlecleric
"E-Dodge Brycer"

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gilescorey
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by gilescorey » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:03 am

Improved KD is a great feat for high AB meleers, like WMs, brycers or battle-clerics, less so for melee characters with AB that tends toward the lower 40s like spellswords.

Simply because the +4 will put you into the "danger zone" so to speak for the target's discipline score on a high AB character; whereas it won't really put you anywhere you weren't before as far as percentages go for those guys with less AB.

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Lorkas
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by Lorkas » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:08 am

susitsu wrote:I don't even think it's supposed to be possible in the description of IKD, but it happens anyway.
It says you count as one size category larger, which allows you to KD things that are one size category larger than you could KD without it. A halfling, for example, can target anything with IKD that a human could target with KD.

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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by CookieMonster » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:56 pm

Because if my character can carry over 2000lbs, why can't he knock a Dragon's kneecaps to another server?
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Iceborn
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by Iceborn » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:05 am

Because KD is the equivalent of a bull rush, and that dragon can carry 20000lbs, and should knock you all the way back to Windows 95
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Invader_Nym
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by Invader_Nym » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:38 am

IKD is one of the most important damage-mitigating feats out there. It's super-dee-duper important.

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Lorkas
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by Lorkas » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:51 am

Let's don't tug at this realism thread too hard, guys.

falafel
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by falafel » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:11 pm

I was considering the importance of IKD for a bard/blackguard/fighter build of mine, trying to determine if Epic Weapon Specialization is worth taking over IKD.

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If Valor Were Inches
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by If Valor Were Inches » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:37 pm

I've had characters without IKD and Expertise. You can be fine without it! Might even be nice to op for consistent hitting over risk.

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gilescorey
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by gilescorey » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:19 pm

falafel wrote:I was considering the importance of IKD for a bard/blackguard/fighter build of mine, trying to determine if Epic Weapon Specialization is worth taking over IKD.
Yes. Epic Weapon Specialisation is a feat you absolutely should take as a melee character. Do not drop that for IKD.

SwampFoot
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by SwampFoot » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:12 am

gilescorey wrote:
falafel wrote:I was considering the importance of IKD for a bard/blackguard/fighter build of mine, trying to determine if Epic Weapon Specialization is worth taking over IKD.
Yes. Epic Weapon Specialisation is a feat you absolutely should take as a melee character. Do not drop that for IKD.

If you already do 30+ per hit that +4 isn't too noticeable. But if you are a dexer it can be life or death. IKD for STR, Epic Weapon Spec for DEX.

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gilescorey
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by gilescorey » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:53 pm

SwampFoot wrote:If you already do 30+ per hit that +4 isn't too noticeable. But if you are a dexer it can be life or death. IKD for STR, Epic Weapon Spec for DEX.
4 damage is absolutely noticeable, what are you talking about?

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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by dallion43 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:04 am

falafel wrote:I was considering the importance of IKD for a bard/blackguard/fighter build of mine, trying to determine if Epic Weapon Specialization is worth taking over IKD.
Bard is about the only build when IDK vs EWS is even debatable. I assume you have 22-23 bard lvl?
If you are str based go with IKD.
If dex, EWS.
Imho.

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Lorkas
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by Lorkas » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:07 am

gilescorey wrote:
SwampFoot wrote:If you already do 30+ per hit that +4 isn't too noticeable. But if you are a dexer it can be life or death. IKD for STR, Epic Weapon Spec for DEX.
4 damage is absolutely noticeable, what are you talking about?
It definitely is noticeable, even at 30+ damage per hit. Even at 40 damage, EWS is a 10% increase in damage--about the same as the 10.5-12.5% damage increase you get when you hit your 7th WM level on a scimitar WM (12.5% increase if you don't have a keen scimitar, 10.5% increase if you do).

It's obviously less noticeable on a 40-damage character than it is on a 20-damage character though, in terms of percent increase in damage. It is definitely true that the lower your damage is, the more important it is to have EWS.

falafel
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Post by falafel » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:29 am

Thank you for th answers. The build would be 20bard/6fighter/4BG and having Strength as their main attribute.

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