How important is improved KD?

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How important is improved KD?

Postby Lost in the dark » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:23 pm

I have a full BAB melee build and two feats to choose pre-epic. How much will I be gimped if I ignore IKD + one other (from whirlwind attack, great cleave, toughness, called shot etc) and go left field like unarmed strike and deflect arrows?

Thoughts very welcome.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby greatfanfare » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:39 pm

If you like to have frost and fire giant shamans on their back, very important.

For me at least, on a meleer, IKD before called shot.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby Lost in the dark » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:44 pm

Makes sense to me. Thanks.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby CookieMonster » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:50 pm

Dragons too! No better way to keep a Dragon at bay than an IKD spam!
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby Sab1 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:03 pm

Being able to KD a dragon seems rather odd to me.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby susitsu » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:03 pm

I don't even think it's supposed to be possible in the description of IKD, but it happens anyway.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby High Primate » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:59 am

Sab1 wrote:Being able to KD a dragon seems rather odd to me.


They're called kneecaps.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby gilescorey » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:03 am

Improved KD is a great feat for high AB meleers, like WMs, brycers or battle-clerics, less so for melee characters with AB that tends toward the lower 40s like spellswords.

Simply because the +4 will put you into the "danger zone" so to speak for the target's discipline score on a high AB character; whereas it won't really put you anywhere you weren't before as far as percentages go for those guys with less AB.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby Lorkas » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:08 am

susitsu wrote:I don't even think it's supposed to be possible in the description of IKD, but it happens anyway.

It says you count as one size category larger, which allows you to KD things that are one size category larger than you could KD without it. A halfling, for example, can target anything with IKD that a human could target with KD.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby CookieMonster » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:56 pm

Because if my character can carry over 2000lbs, why can't he knock a Dragon's kneecaps to another server?
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby Iceborn » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:05 am

Because KD is the equivalent of a bull rush, and that dragon can carry 20000lbs, and should knock you all the way back to Windows 95
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby Invader_Nym » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:38 am

IKD is one of the most important damage-mitigating feats out there. It's super-dee-duper important.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby Lorkas » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:51 am

Let's don't tug at this realism thread too hard, guys.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby falafel » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:11 pm

I was considering the importance of IKD for a bard/blackguard/fighter build of mine, trying to determine if Epic Weapon Specialization is worth taking over IKD.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby If Valor Were Inches » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:37 pm

I've had characters without IKD and Expertise. You can be fine without it! Might even be nice to op for consistent hitting over risk.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby gilescorey » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:19 pm

falafel wrote:I was considering the importance of IKD for a bard/blackguard/fighter build of mine, trying to determine if Epic Weapon Specialization is worth taking over IKD.

Yes. Epic Weapon Specialisation is a feat you absolutely should take as a melee character. Do not drop that for IKD.
Kuma wrote:There’s also CJ's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from the entry for 'Goblin' on FR Wiki, for instance.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby SwampFoot » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:12 am

gilescorey wrote:
falafel wrote:I was considering the importance of IKD for a bard/blackguard/fighter build of mine, trying to determine if Epic Weapon Specialization is worth taking over IKD.

Yes. Epic Weapon Specialisation is a feat you absolutely should take as a melee character. Do not drop that for IKD.



If you already do 30+ per hit that +4 isn't too noticeable. But if you are a dexer it can be life or death. IKD for STR, Epic Weapon Spec for DEX.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby gilescorey » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:53 pm

SwampFoot wrote:If you already do 30+ per hit that +4 isn't too noticeable. But if you are a dexer it can be life or death. IKD for STR, Epic Weapon Spec for DEX.

4 damage is absolutely noticeable, what are you talking about?
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby dallion43 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:04 am

falafel wrote:I was considering the importance of IKD for a bard/blackguard/fighter build of mine, trying to determine if Epic Weapon Specialization is worth taking over IKD.


Bard is about the only build when IDK vs EWS is even debatable. I assume you have 22-23 bard lvl?
If you are str based go with IKD.
If dex, EWS.
Imho.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby Lorkas » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:07 am

gilescorey wrote:
SwampFoot wrote:If you already do 30+ per hit that +4 isn't too noticeable. But if you are a dexer it can be life or death. IKD for STR, Epic Weapon Spec for DEX.

4 damage is absolutely noticeable, what are you talking about?

It definitely is noticeable, even at 30+ damage per hit. Even at 40 damage, EWS is a 10% increase in damage--about the same as the 10.5-12.5% damage increase you get when you hit your 7th WM level on a scimitar WM (12.5% increase if you don't have a keen scimitar, 10.5% increase if you do).

It's obviously less noticeable on a 40-damage character than it is on a 20-damage character though, in terms of percent increase in damage. It is definitely true that the lower your damage is, the more important it is to have EWS.
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Re: How important is improved KD?

Postby falafel » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:29 am

Thank you for th answers. The build would be 20bard/6fighter/4BG and having Strength as their main attribute.
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