Drow that worship Eilistraee

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Spaniardl
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Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by Spaniardl » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:13 pm

So I read the 'definitive drow policy', I guess there is an exception for drow that worship Eilistraee? Any rules about that? Are they allowed on surface and to commingle with good folk?

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Seekeepeek
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by Seekeepeek » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:27 pm

kill Elilistraee workshippers in fear for them lieing to you, they are not an exception to the rule.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=12657
see that link
if you seen any players breaking the guild-lines there, feel free to report them

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Iceborn
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by Iceborn » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:56 pm

"Good" monstrous characters require a normal award.

Now, in the example of an eilistraeean drow, you are in a pretty grey area.
You are free to play one, but be mindful of The Contract:
You are playing a monstrous character, and you are expected to retain the essence of one, even when trying to work toward something like redemption. Excessive silliness will be met with fire.

There was a post some time ago regarding the reaction toward drow, and in most cases, the drow is expected to behave like a monster, and the surfacer is meant to regard the drow like a monster. It would take pretty exceptional circumstances to disregard that basic principle, and the rest is creative licence.
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BegoneThoth
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:52 pm

No real way to verify a drow is Eilistraeean, and that's really the most basic cover-story a Lolthite would use to dick around on the surface.

If you see a "Eilistraeean" drow, instruct them to go back into the underdark where they belong, if they take too long to do that, or resist, or talk back to you, odds are they're just another slaver, so kill them and leave them for the rabid wolverines.
\

Nitro
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by Nitro » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:58 pm

Spaniardl wrote:So I read the 'definitive drow policy', I guess there is an exception for drow that worship Eilistraee? Any rules about that? Are they allowed on surface and to commingle with good folk?
To quote Irongron from the announcement this summer:
Irongron wrote: Here's the thing: when you play a monster race, expect to be treated as a monster race. Every civilized town for RP purposes can be considered to have a number of residents. If you got an ooc warning about hanging around a populated surface town if you are an underdarker, thank your lucky stars because the IC interaction would be: "look, a monster, everyone kill it." and then having the entire local militia attack until you all died. In fact, if you're playing a monster race, we're permitting it based on the understanding that you will react in just this way...avoiding towns upon fear of death.

Goblins, Kobolds, Drow, Orogs, etc, are considered a "Monster Race". Part of the RP of being allowed (note the very careful phrasing) to continue to play a monster race is rping as if you are a monster, an unwelcome member in traditional surface society. If you can't do that, there's absolutely no rule that says I can't delete your character for bastardizing the role play of the entire server. In fact, ask around, I will do it without hesitation or remorse if I feel as if in any way your rp is corrupting the vision of RP for the server.

Bottom line is, it's ok to agree to disagree on the principle, just so there is an understanding that if/when we catch it, the consequences will be severe. Up to and including permanent removal of the character and/or player permanently, in extreme or repetitive instances.

Jjjerm


It has nothing to do with alignment. If you have a non-evil monster, or have used a reward to be good aligned, you are expected to do so in the Underdark setting, or outside of civilsed lands (away from NPCs)

This is not a discussion.
So yeah, no exceptions for Ellistraeans, or even those who get a roll to play a good drow. If you want to do a surface dwelling worshipper of Ellistrae, you'd have to be neutral or evil (unless you get the award for good alignment), and it'd be best to do so somewhere out in the wilderness.

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BrilliantInsanity
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by BrilliantInsanity » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:44 pm

Even what I would call the most well known and open Eilistraean Drow on the surface (in my minimal contact with ANY on the surface) even she "resides" in a hole in a wall outside of civilization... The biggest take away is, frankly "there will be no Drizzt's" ... no matter how good you are, how much good you do, CIVILIZATION AS A WHOLE will still hate you and want you to die.

If you've played Baldurs Gate 1/2 (and if you haven't wtf play em scrub) then expect the first encounter's with Viconia to be the norm. If you try to make yourself part of civilization expect to be murdered by players and even DM's.

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Dreams
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by Dreams » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:38 am

Should probably also be noted that players interpret behaviour of characters like these differently, and characters much more so. Someone might think they're acting like an Eilistraeen, where other people may consider those actions as terribly monstrous as any other drow.

MoreThanThree
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by MoreThanThree » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:04 am

Kill the Eilistraeens first because they're closer.
20 RPR GANG

SwampFoot
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by SwampFoot » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:00 am

MoreThanThree wrote:Kill the Eilistraeens first because they're closer.
No. Kill the Eilistraeens first because they are likely lying, Lothite scum. Or harbor them.

:D

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susitsu
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by susitsu » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:36 am

you show them the noose because they're elves

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-XXX-
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by -XXX- » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:19 am

I can see an increasing tendency to resolve issues such as this one OOC rather than IC. Is actually RPing ones character no longer fashionable or what?

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flower
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by flower » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:05 am

-XXX- wrote:I can see an increasing tendency to resolve issues such as this one OOC rather than IC. Is actually RPing ones character no longer fashionable or what?

:?: :!: :roll:

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-XXX-
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by -XXX- » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:24 am

What? Why is a lenghty forum debate necessary in order for people to figure out how is their very own character supposed to react towards Eilistraeean drow?

Nitro
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by Nitro » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:55 am

I'm not really seeing a lengthy debate. More like a bunch of meme posts after a quick answer to the OP's question.

It's only a matter of time before CJ gets here.

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gilescorey
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by gilescorey » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:57 am

The people call, and I answer.

Nitro
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by Nitro » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:15 am

What have I done.

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flower
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by flower » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:16 am

Nitro wrote:I'm not really seeing a lengthy debate. More like a bunch of meme posts after a quick answer to the OP's question.

It's only a matter of time before CJ gets here.

This topic being brought over and over leaves only one stinging feeling. Like people trying to stirr things, to get DMs dropped on us without direct reporting.

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-XXX-
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by -XXX- » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:05 pm

Yeah, and the debate ~is~ lengthy as this is not the only thread regarding this topic, but rather it spans over multiple threads around various subsections of the forums (including a locked thread in the shanty subsection).
Personally I see this as a feeble attempt to reach a "consensus" resulting in a shadow rule. Shadow rules are bad.

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BegoneThoth
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by BegoneThoth » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:10 pm

I keep joking about how I just fight and kill them on sight (after some 'gtfo back to the ud where u belong' rp), because that's just how my character, how most characters, would react to drow as per rules/monster contract/etc.

I don't want that option taken away just because there's a shrine nearby.
\

Gnarh
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by Gnarh » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:40 am

I think I've figured out why so many people including myself are having such a negative/confused reaction to the current batch of good drow...

... I think it's metagaming.

In normal circumstances IG, most Drow would never admit to being "good" or worshipping Eilistraee, because it immediately makes you a target for the knife in the temple. IG it's just simply not worth the risk, because anyone could betray you. Furthermore, if you encounter any surfacers/anyone else and divulge that, they will think you are lying because it's trick number one for the cunning and tricksy Drow to get you to lower your guard and then strike when it's down.

In the FR setting, Eilistraee Drow live apart, and live in fear. They live apart because they never know who they can trust. They live in fear because every time another drow knows where they are and who they worship, they are risking everything. The next face you see, the next person you welcome, could be the one who would see you all dragged off to the temple. And there are more than enough evil members of other races that would happily sell out you and your village for the gold any Drow house would happily pay to exterminate you.

But right now, we've got an group of "good" Drow that know they can trust each other because of OOC connections. They've all burnt an award for a good aligned Drow - and because they know each other OOC they know they can trust one another IG. Therefore there is no "risk" here, no tension - you can trust the drow around you because you know each other OOC and therefore it's all tea and crumpets.

Furthermore, they are relying on other player's OOC response to give them a chance - most players don't like being harsh on other players, and most players actually like to be nice to keep the RP going, whether or not that RP is healthy or appropriate to the server or setting. So we're not seeing the zealous hunts, the driving hatred and constant targeting of these characters because people don't want to be seen as "harsh or unfair" to these players

Finally, given there is more than one person in this group, it gives a false legitimacy to the circumstances. This is compounded by the fact we haven't had a clear Dev or DM directive on this even though it's at least the 4th or 5th time threads like this have popped up in the last 2 or 3 RL months.

There is a way that "good aligned" Drow RP can be done well - and it's happened before by a few masterful roleplayers. No one ever knew they were good aligned... just things happened to go wrong, most often when there was a scapegoat: A slave would just happen to escape. A Matron would just happen to be assassinated just before their big coup. Burrowhome just happened to know when patrols were happening. Not-so-random little bits of good just happened, with no one ever knowing who or what caused it. It was smart, intelligent, complex RP. It was brilliant. It was reminiscent of the calculus of death that Turing's team had to undertake to ensure the Axis never discovered that Britain had cracked the enigma code: these characters could only ever do just enough good not to risk that they would be discovered... not everyone could be saved, not every plot foiled.

It was thrilling. Probably some of the best RP I've ever seen on Arelith. It's what the Harpers wish they could be.

The whole "not all drow are evil" isn't. I'm not going to get into real world commentary here, but it seems like a pretty poorly veiled analogy to certain ideas within the internet zeitgeist at present. Regardless -the more I consider it the more it strikes me as a OOC group pushing an RL agenda IG. It's just bad, and it's bad for the server.

I really hope the DM's and Dev's act on this soon. Good-Aligned Drow shouldn't be a thing on Arelith as the playerbase just can't be trusted with it. It's the reason why the Definitive Drow Policy has been in place for so long, and why up that, up until recently, it was so strictly enforced.

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susitsu
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by susitsu » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:29 am

You're a powerful man right now.

Gods_Kill_People
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by Gods_Kill_People » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:36 am

Honestly Gnarh, who the heck are you to judge ANYONE elses RP?? I also suggest better fact checking your sources on Eilistraee shrines and temples, here let me list them for you.

The Chondalwood Shrine
The Dancing Dell, Ardeep Forest
The Dancing Stone - ElvenTree
The Dark Dancer, Ravens Bluff
Darkmaiden's Leap, The High Forest
Forest of Lethyr
Forest of Shadows Shrine
Forest of Tethir
The Grey Forest Shrine
Lake Sember Shrine
The Misty Forest Shrine
The Mouth of Song, Moonwood
The Promenade of the Dark Maiden
The Shadowtop Glade, Velarswood
The Tower of the Dark Moon (also "Twisted Tower of Ashaba"), Shadowdale.
The Yuirwood Shrine
Wildwinds Coven, The High Forest

Notice they are almost ALL places near major populated settlements? Meaning they HAVE connections with other settlements, also if you read the general ideals of Eilistraee which I will also provide, Eilistraee encourages this.

Worshipers of Eilistraee mostly consisted of those drow who hoped to escape the danger and darkness of Underdark and Lolth's evil, taking back their place in the surface world and living in peace with all other races. However, in line with her ideals, Eilistraee would welcome and accept beings of all races who shared the desire of seeing all races living in harmony, without pointless discrimination or wars, and worked towards that goal.

So maybe stop trying to dictate everyone elses RP, and maybe focus on your OOC prejudice against other players?

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The GrumpyCat
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Re: Drow that worship Eilistraee

Post by The GrumpyCat » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:58 pm

Just as a reminder - Eilistraee Drow are still Drow. Do we expect you to PvP All Drow All The Time On Sight No Matter What? No. But we do ask that you treat Drow (ALL DROW) with an amout of fear, distrust and dislike.

Yes, there's an amount of 'case by case' basis here (If a Drow has done enough your character might trust /THAT/ drow might not be entirely malign.) But Drow, in general, as in the race, on first, second and probably third meeting should always be treated with fear and hostility.
There was a post some time ago regarding the reaction toward drow, and in most cases, the drow is expected to behave like a monster, and the surfacer is meant to regard the drow like a monster. It would take pretty exceptional circumstances to disregard that basic principle, and the rest is creative licence.
This- basialy.

Also Drow should NOT be lingering in surface settlments, especially not openly. no matter what the faith or alingment.
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

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