Goblin Flail +4 enhancement +4 damage

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gilescorey
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Goblin Flail +4 enhancement +4 damage

Post by gilescorey » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:04 pm

The goblin scourge flail (Dc 38 carpentry, ID 796) has +4 enhancement bonus, but also +4 bludgeoning damage. These two properties do not stack together because the base weapon does bludgeoning damage.

Effectively this creates a +4 keen flail, which is not very strong. A base masterly damask scimitar far outstrips the flail, which sucks because this "epic racial weapon" does not feel epic at all. It feels lame and pretty weak, despite the materials being super difficult to find (wtf is a Skull Emblem?)

My suggestion as to solving this would be to change the +4 bludgeoning to +4 piercing, or to make it +8 bludgeoning -- which is effectively +4 bludgeoning bonus.

There aren't any bonus effects the flail has, unlike the Elf/Dwarf/Orc racial weapons with Runic enchantments, and bonus damage against certain creature types. Flails are really just a glorified club that has a martial weapon proficiency gate on it, so it's not as if fixing the damage is going to really break anything.

Here are some Handy Graphs to illustrate the issue as it stands:



As the graph demonstrates, the (non-keened!) scimitar weaponmaster outstrips the goblin flail weaponmaster against literally every stripe of opposing AC, making it not only an inferior choice but one inferior choice that requires a great deal of investment in acquiring the off colour materials and into a non-standard choice of crafting.



This graph demonstrates what my proposed fix to this issue is, making the flail superior than the scimitar against high-AC targets. While not demonstrated on this graph, it also has the effect of making the flail superior against targets immune to critical hits, like Undead or things like slimes and oozes; thus it has a cool niche, rather than a useless niche as it is right now.

tl;dr Goblin flails are weak and useless due to how NWN doesn't stack damage bonus with enhancement bonus, either change the damage bonus to a different type or increase it by four.

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Sockss
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Re: Goblin Flail +4 enhancement +4 damage

Post by Sockss » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:14 pm

I'm sure it was just a mistake/oversight.

Changing it to piercing (So long as it's not an essence-element (Acid,Fire,Elec,Cold,Son,Neg,Pos,Div), or just increasing it by 4 will work.
Thankfully this team is no longer being used.

Sockss#5567 for nwn mechanics questions.

DirtyDeity
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Re: Goblin Flail +4 enhancement +4 damage

Post by DirtyDeity » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:38 pm

Hundred precent agreed.

I personally think a lot of the special weapons need a small boost, but this one is obviously an oversight.

Why give the weapon two stats that don't stack? A fix would surely be nice. :]

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Cortex
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Re: Goblin Flail +4 enhancement +4 damage

Post by Cortex » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:45 pm

i agree remove the +4 enhancement
:)

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Peppermint
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Re: Goblin Flail +4 enhancement +4 damage

Post by Peppermint » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:50 pm

Yes, remove the enhancement. Just +4 AB should be sufficient.

(All right, all right. I'm joking. It should have +4 piercing or +8 bludgeoning damage.)

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reighbo
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Re: Goblin Flail +4 enhancement +4 damage

Post by reighbo » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:58 pm

We have an IG project started on the very production of this very weapon.
Tho as far as i am aware only 1-2 have been produced thus far, with 1 more built/yet still under construction.
It feels lame and pretty weak, despite the materials being super difficult to find (wtf is a Skull Emblem?)
And we still have approx 4-5 Skull Emblem(s)

... a find-able item IG (ingredient) that will take up 4 spaces within an inventory, and stack-able to at least 5 ... as I've yet to possess any more than 5 at any time.

Yet are these Goblin-Carpenter, Wooden built Flails ...
Actually more supposed too 2-goblin handedly,

+8 Bludgeon an opponent to the ground or dis-lodge bone joints on contact?
Or
+4 Pierce/or Slash an opponent's flesh off the bones?

Perhaps better knowing its role, would help decide the fate of its possible victims!
as i more than agree,
with the current +4 non-added Bludgeoning damage + this info,
will only slow our/other productions.
And make it appear far less IG.

And even tho i may have a more direct IG-ing reasons to wish this weapon ..."fixxed".
Id had yet to even notice this double Bludgeoning damage (or lack thereof) issue.

So yea i'd still agree either way ans Thanks! :mrgreen:

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Iceborn
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Re: Goblin Flail +4 enhancement +4 damage

Post by Iceborn » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:17 pm

Side question: Is it runic?
Misc Changes, with the Feats and Skills sublinks.
Available races
Spell Changes
Class Mechanics
Command Guide

Take a look before asking your questions!

WhereButterfliesGoToDie
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Re: Goblin Flail +4 enhancement +4 damage

Post by WhereButterfliesGoToDie » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:18 pm

The thing is, that it isn't +8 bludgeon. The +4 enhancement and +4 bludgeon on the weapon won't stack. So, it all totals to +4 bludgeon damage from the enhancement bonus, on behalf of that being the innate damage type of a light flail. Effectively making it +4/keen, with the added bludgeon damage not being present.

If changed to +4 enhancement and +4 piercing, it'd make +8 damage in total, which appears to be the intent.

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ActionReplay
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Re: Goblin Flail +4 enhancement +4 damage

Post by ActionReplay » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:30 am

I would wait finishing any crafting for this weapon until it has been fixed.

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Miaou
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Re: Goblin Flail +4 enhancement +4 damage

Post by Miaou » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:58 am

I am actually suprised it takes a Skull Emblem. It is a 1 Use/Day item that is, well. One of the matrix items out of how many hundreds there are. Much like the Mithril Dust.

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Irongron
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Re: Goblin Flail +4 enhancement +4 damage

Post by Irongron » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:55 pm

The flail now does an extra +2 Slashing and Piercing, as well as a small fear ability.

This will be changed from the next reset. Any player with an old version should be able to approach DMs to have it replaced by the new.

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Iceborn
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Re: Goblin Flail +4 enhancement +4 damage

Post by Iceborn » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:58 pm

Iceborn wrote:Side question: Is it runic?
Misc Changes, with the Feats and Skills sublinks.
Available races
Spell Changes
Class Mechanics
Command Guide

Take a look before asking your questions!

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Irongron
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Re: Goblin Flail +4 enhancement +4 damage

Post by Irongron » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:02 pm

Yes

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