Horde Gate Broken?

[PrinceGeser]

Hello everyone!

I play one of the Elders of the Horde on Arelith (Tree) and wanted to let you guys know that the gate is bugged (or maybe it was never designed to work like I'm thinking?). Orogs cannot talk to Jell and enter into the jungle camp: there has to be someone on the other side of the gate already, or they have a half orc with them, to get in.

This is a major problem as some of our elders are orogs, and the camp is used as the Horde's primary location for meetings, leaving information and requests, and where many quarters, currently empty, want to be taken by orogs who have declined so far because there's no reliable way to ensure they can check up on them every so often, and might have it stolen from under them by another orc as well as all their stored goods (we try to promote a different atmosphere in the Horde, but I agree that it's a valid concern).

Please let me know what's gone wrong (or if it was intended, if there's anything I can do to change that), and what I can do to help if there is anything! Until then, thank your for your time!

-Prince Geser

[Red Ropes]

Orogs are not half-breeds - but pure orcs.

[BegoneThoth]

Orogs were never allowed in. Gnolls and Ogres are, but the NPC will not make an exception for Orogs barring them being able to pass a persuade check.

This was, if you remember, a big deal for a lot of the OG horde. Human friends and orogs could not enter but demon worshipping Gnolls were let right in.

[PrinceGeser]

Is it possible to change that? Orogs have become a very integral part of the horde now, and not letting them have access to the camp is a large burden.

[TimeAdept]

Orogs always were and it was always a pain in the Snuggybear and it's a big reason why I stopped whoing up: My Horde PC c ouldn't actually get into the Horde Camp he helped build.

[Za-Lord~s Guard]

Orogs should not have access to anything resembling a surface town. If word got out that Underdark orcs were settling on the surface, any response other than the Half-Orc settlement getting Wharftown'd would be a mistake.

Orogs are the same sort of unrepentant and destructive monsters that drow are. The fact they aren't more heavily distinguished from half-orcs is a perception issue similar to that of warlocks before multiple DM events came to drive home the fact that warlocks aren't cuddly.

[Red Ropes]

I think gnolls and ogres being able to enter is merely an oversight and probably not intended.

[PrinceGeser]

Orogs should not have access to anything resembling a surface town. If word got out that Underdark orcs were settling on the surface, any response other than the Half-Orc settlement getting Wharftown'd would be a mistake.

Orogs are the same sort of unrepentant and destructive monsters that drow are. The fact they aren't more heavily distinguished from half-orcs is a perception issue similar to that of warlocks before multiple DM events came to drive home the fact that warlocks aren't cuddly.

Well word should have spread by now that the Horde openly accepts orogs: Tree has been fighting for orogs with every settlement (and already has agreements with some), seeing if he can get them safe passage through their lands, purchase at their shops, etc. I know the DMs are strongly against that kind of underdarker becoming "good" RP, which I agree with for the most part, but I would argue that the horde is more neutral than good: we won't hesitate to attack enemies that have wronged us, for instance.

[BegoneThoth]

I don't understand why the horde camp has to have a race-gate at all. Just race-restrict the quarter ownership to make it 'exclusive.' I do not understand what goals that gate had, but I can assure you it has failed, unless it was to encourage exclusionary RP.

I don't see half-orks, a race that is almost defined as outcasts and rejects, would ever possibly, ever, reject people, much less ones that want to help, based on some insane concept that a 100% ork can't get in, a 0% ork can't get in, but if you have 99%-1% ork and qualify as a half-blood then you can get in.

It's not myon, but has the same access rules. Except instead of magic crystals it's a half-ork with 2 dogs and a wood gate.

Also gnoll party at midnight.

[Za-Lord~s Guard]

Well word should have spread by now that the Horde openly accepts orogs: Tree has been fighting for orogs with every settlement (and already has agreements with some), seeing if he can get them safe passage through their lands, purchase at their shops, etc. I know the DMs are strongly against that kind of underdarker becoming "good" RP, which I agree with for the most part, but I would argue that the horde is more neutral than good: we won't hesitate to attack enemies that have wronged us, for instance.

The fact that the settlements would even entertain the notion of letting orogs pass through their territories is proof that orogs are not being perceived in a true-to-lore manner by the community. These are not just beefier half-orcs: these are full-blown orcs, and worse, they're smart orcs. These are the ones who strike out, form raiding parties, and lead orc hordes to burn down villages and slaughter peasants.

The argument often used for good aligned drow applies here, and applies fully: an orog seeking acceptance on the surface should achieve it on a case by case basis, and should still face extreme scrutiny by the surfacers that choose to tolerate him. A settlement that circumvents that and has orogs as accepted 'pseudo-surfacers' serves only to degenerate the significance of what these monsters are supposed to be even further.

I've gone into a tangent topic at this point though. Returning to the main point, I don't believe this is a bug: I think this is just the door working as intended to prevent Underdarkers from getting too cozy on the surface - with the oversight of gnolls and ogres being allowed through, as Redropes pointed out.

[PrinceGeser]

I don't understand why the horde camp has to have a race-gate at all. Just race-restrict the quarter ownership to make it 'exclusive.' I do not understand what goals that gate had, but I can assure you it has failed, unless it was to encourage exclusionary RP.

I don't see half-orks, a race that is almost defined as outcasts and rejects, would ever possibly, ever, reject people, much less ones that want to help, based on some insane concept that a 100% ork can't get in, a 0% ork can't get in, but if you have 99%-1% ork and qualify as a half-blood then you can get in.

It's not myon, but has the same access rules. Except instead of magic crystals it's a half-ork with 2 dogs and a wood gate.

Also gnoll party at midnight.

Yeah, the Horde has developed into becoming a thing for anyone with orcish blood, little or small, and is very similar to Myon in it's exclusion of other races and benefiting their own. However, I had no idea you could set quarters to only be bought by a certian race. Maybe that can be enough, but I doubt it will stop the other orogs in the horde from asking for the change.

[BegoneThoth]

I don't know if it changed, but when I was in (on Zed) we set it up to use the old way and allow any Ork blood or friends. The gate changed all that and the faction really fell apart due to the exclusionary nature of the race gate and unwillingness of the NPC masters to allow even those who fought/died for Horde goals to even enter unescorted.

Meanwhile, gnolls....

[MalKalz]

Gnolls and Ogres should not be allowed in in the next update.

[Braid]

Had to drop my two cents.

The Horde always stood for orc blood in general (half or pure). That included:

1. Pure bloods (Orogs & First major meeting had a Pure Blood NPC Shaman)
2. Other orc breeds from cross breeding (including demon spawn orcs)

Others were always allowed in on a case to case basis hence why I love the lever. Back then, I always kept watch of the camp entrance (this is an internal affair that the Horde should establish)

If mechanically,

this could be remedied if the elders could control who and who can't get in via the gate. Kinda like a menu that would allow certain races in and others out. That would mean mechanical determination of Elders (based on the current Horde governing system)

Keep it up guys

- Ohan